The search for primitive life. Why?

[YT2095]

they would indeed send machines 1`st

I`ve seen a prototype on a documentary, it had something like a nuclear tip on the end of a big screw type thing to melt the ice (a few kilometers I think it was) and as you know, material like that always maintain a few degrees above the ambient temprature, so it should do a nice job

I DO however remmember thinking and commenting to my wife about the irony that mankinds 1`st trip to a distant moon and the 1`st thing he does is polute it with a nuke )

[atinymonkey]

A bit like '2010 Odyssey two' by Arthur C Clarke, with the chinise led ship, the Tsien, landing on Europa, being destroyed by the native life form and provoking the wrath of the monolith. Seeing as china is the closest to initiating the Mars landings, and the US are rushing to beat them to it, it's running fairly close to the book at the moment!

[aman]

One of the problems with Europa exploration is we need to send an extremely clean probe. If we contaminated Europa with a microbe strong enough to survive the trip, then it could wreak havoc. If a human went there, we couldn't insure sterility. Not yet.

I hope we find life there and never plant life there by accident.

Just aman

[matter]

How can we even be sure that there is water beneath the surface? I mean, our information suggests that most likely there is, but, Humans are so erronous it's not even funny. I think we know less than 10 % what we think we know about the universe.

[Skye]

"Humans are so erronous it's not even funny"

Actually, it is kind of funny. You spelt erroneous erroneously

[matter]

lol. Yeah, I had a feeling I did. No big deal though. Either way, we are! It's disgusting. Our civilization is horrible.

[aman]

We have a lot of humans that know there is water there. They astral project and go see it and I'm sure even have a site that will tell you about it.

Real science though projects that the mass of Europa and its gravity effects from Jupiter should create substantial core heating and on some level below the surface maintain a viable water zone.

Just aman

[Giles]

Considering that the history of life on earth, it seems likely that most ecosystems will be in a primitive, 'simple' state. While big complex ecosystems can be detected by, for example, spectrographs which show an atmospheric composition that is not chemically sustainable by normal geological processes (exceptional geological activity has its own distinct signatures), simple bacterial-type ecosystems (probably almost all of them) will only be picked up by sampling .

 

Finding these will let us learn about exo-biology. Even if you don't care about that per se, it will help us discover more complex ecosystems.

[Intelligence]

Read above for the link to the Europa mission date.

 

Frankly I have serious issues with NASA. NASA does not have a number one interest in "finding life", they're merely a group of astrogeologists is what they are.

 

I mean what they do is their choice - I sure would like all the funding to go to the mars water missions and to Europa - but that's just me.

 

I mean let's face it bubs, finding any multi-cellular (or multi-something) life would be incredible.

 

That we lived when it happened, wow what are the odds!!!!

 

Which could happen - I mean it wouldn't suprise me - I'll be alive for quite a bit much longer, sooner or later it's bound to happen.

 

It's amazing how amaetur we are in space. Shoot we ain't even personally been to another planet, what pansies are we?

[matter]

You're right, we are pansies. But, humans traveled the oceans to explore, and I'm sure we'll find a way to explore space also. You're right about NASA too. By the way I just finished watching 'Contact.' Interesting movie but irritating in a lot of ways. I'm sure everyone who's interested in finding other civilizations and space travel has seen it anyways. They probably all think its a load of poop too. By the way, I didnt mean to have some sort of problem with you in another forum Intel, I don't ever try to have problems, life is too short for that. I don't like to fight. My mistake if I sounded like a troll, I'm merely slightly dense, and can't put my thoughts into words.

[uscphysics]

Have you ever thought that dropping these probes can help us better understand what the evolution of stellar bodies really is. I mean the only source we have actually gained data on is the Earth and the Moon. Other than that, untill we actually obtain physical data of some of these bodies, we have a small sample base for our understaing of many things that make up the universe.

[YT2095]

well Mars has been pretty much covered by the Viking twins and is 97% mapped the atmosphere we know a little bit about too, same for Venus (mega hostile!) so I figure Europa should be a walk in the park as far as hostility goes, and we certainly have much more technology and materials of better qualities since the Viking and the Venus probes

we can also SEE evolution in action within a single human lifetime as well, so we KNOW evolution is a reality. so if we DID find even the most BASIC of lifeforms within our own Solar system, then it would be reasonable to deduce that this could occur elsewhere also even if you flat out ignore the Drake Equasion (I subscribe to his Equasion also).

as Unscientific as it may sound, I beleive there IS life out there, and would put a few pound notes in a bookies that life is present in Europa. Even if I was wrong, it wouldn`t shake my conviction.

I`ll stick my neck out and say WHEN we do find basic life out there, it wouldn`t be TOO much of a leap to consider that it ALSO could/would evolve. and so, a search for ANYTHING living (the definition of life is also subject to debate here) would be of profound! significance to us all, by sheer implication alone.

[atinymonkey]

We haven't quite managed to map 97% of the Earth yet, what with the massive water cover and all. I think if NASA has clamed to have 'mapped' Mars, they must have a fairly loose definition of what constitutes a Map. 1:10000 scale.

 

You are dead right about Europa though, best chance of finding multi celular life in this solar system lies on that rock. I might place the same bet, it can go on my wall £1 bet at a million to one .

[YT2095]

perhaps a bad choice of word on my part?

by "mapped" I mean taken pics of 97% of it`s surface, and with an "echo transponder" to get depth/height info as well as IR data.

[atinymonkey]

No, you are right. They have mapped the majority, but there are still areas that are a little 'fuzzy'. Like the ice caps. The official line is that it's complete, which is probably where the 97% comes in. Congress changed the definition of complete to 'over 96%' for some legal reason or other. I think they used a laser altimeter rather than an echo transponder, but I could be wrong.

 

I'm still going to take the bet on Europa though. I'm going to find out the odds they are giving!

[YT2095]

hehehehe , when you find out let me know too, I will also place a bet, Im just young enough to find out either way and see the result in my lifetime, If not, I`ll pass the betting slip/ddocket to my Offspring if we`re lucky enough to be bless with some, failing that I`ll leave it my will to the Science Forum for extra HDD`s and stuff )

Probably was a laser echo transponder, I don`t rem the exact details, possibly dopler too using passive techniques (cheaper that way) )

[matter]

I have kind of a dumb question but, how did the VERY first organisms get on our planet? Do we not know?

[YT2095]

Know for sure! I don`t think we do yet in all honesty.

but there IS ideas that it may have arrived via asteroid or commet courier.

[matter]

asteroid or comet from where? within our solar system? that doesn't seem right.

[YT2095]

well Amino acids are known to be on certain asteroids, so I guess if the right combinations hit us at the right time and place, it could be feasible that life could get a foot hold perhaps?

[matter]

Oh I see.