What does it mean for the US now? Like what does second term of Trump mean for the US now?

[toucana]

8 hours ago, CharonY said:

Ok, can anyone tell me that we are not in bizarro world?

Trump world always feels to me rather like the nested reality simulations in this film:

 

 

Edited Saturday at 09:44 PM by toucana
Nested realities !

[MonDie]

On 11/6/2024 at 5:58 PM, CharonY said:

No, they are not Trump clones. You are giving him way too much credit. Far-right sentiments have been on the rise already before Trump and there are a couple that are not centrist. They may have started out on the right but quite a few have descended into more than a bit of fascism lately. The AfD in Germany, for example has folks in the leadership who are demonstrably fascists (as in validated by courts).

This has always been the deception and you are falling for it. Trump is not the works manifestation of this sentiment, just a symptom. Overtly it is always about things that are agreeable, such as the economy, or making lives better. The underlying sentiment is that the others are somehow making things worse and "poisoning our blood". They are not even trying to make things better. They just want it make worse for marginalized groups and therefore make the appearance that they are doing something. Meanwhile, they enrich themselves only.

 

In many cases you cannot do that. But as I said, you can enact laws against folks without stated protection (e.g. transgender folks). You can and they do enact censorship and they reduce protections that limit discrimination against folks with darker skin. You do not need a law force people to discriminate. The sad truth is that without protection, folks do it on their own. Again Trump is not the cause, just a sad symptom.

Which is helped by the inability of our species to remember stuff it seems. Note the absence of COVID-19 in everyone's mind despite its impact on all the elements (i.e., economy, inflation, immigration, etc.). This includes the disastrous handling of the pandemic itself. But if deaths don't convince anyone, I don't know what does. Probably some stupid tiktok dance or whatever.

 

 

On 11/6/2024 at 7:08 PM, CharonY said:

I think what is ultimately coming true is a reckoning that many of our social agreements in democratic systems have become undone. Traditional parties still operate under assumptions such as that democracy is fundamentally valued, or that not adhering to social norms (e.g. overt rather than covert racism/sexism/authoritarianism/criminal behaviour etc.) is going to be punished by voters.

I feel (and it comes from interacting with young academics a fair bit) there is a social change incoming, at a different rate and shape than we might be aware of. As someone has posted, idiocracy in action. Except at some point we will be the idiots.

I think a lot a lot of these modern challenges can be explained via the false consensus effect.  Maybe the term is more specific than what I'm remembering--I'm a rusty ten dollar wrench at this point.  The false consensus effect merely refers to the way that our reticence about expressing countervailing attitudes or beliefs skews most peoples' perceptions of what most other people think.  This is not adherence to norms, but the formation of those very norms, the breakdown of which leads to "antisocial behavior."

The point: What nec209 is describing might not be a constant. Politicians who wield these wedge issues can ride these false consensus shockwaves, and in the process they legitimize these ideas.  There is a double-edged sword though.  Most people have "implicit bias" and prejudice as the side-effect of cognitive "schemas," but the least penetrating minds tend to be the most susceptible.  The double-edged sword is that we can simultaneously hold negative stereotypes about the oppressed and their oppressors, which might explain our reasonable reticence.

Although this is certainly a shift, a shift into decline, for my country, there is perhaps a more nebulous battle over the legitimacy of leaders who ride these sentiments and the effectiveness of that strategy.  Will the dull-mindedness of the MAGA blunt instrument crash the whole machine before this idea spreads to new frontiers?

On 11/6/2024 at 4:20 PM, nec209 said:

What does second term of Trump mean for the US now?

What caused the US polar shift vote where political shift moved to the far right and MAGA movement is where the US is at now. I see some similar political parties starting up in Canada, UK and Europe in upcoming election there but they not so far right like Trump.

Apparently the RNC is trying to stop The Onion from buying the now failing InfoWars media outlet.  That should give you an idea of what is happening.

[J.C.MacSwell]

On 11/15/2024 at 10:07 PM, TheVat said:

Kennedy is so annoying in his uneven levels of rationality - used to do valuable environmental law stuff, and has some good ideas about Big Ag, ultraprocessed food,  etc.  There was a time I could admire his spirit. Then he goes off on some WiFi causes cancer rant, or whatever the crackpot du jour is, and needs to be returned to the padded room.  It's really sad.  

 

Everything now is one extreme or the other. Harris's campaign toward the middle has been rejected. America wants concrete answers sans details. The last thing they want is to be forced to think.

[iNow]

2 hours ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

The last thing they want is to be forced to think.

It’s called freedumb you pinko commie

[MonDie]

My bad.  It is Elon Musk who is getting involved in the case involving The Onion.
The Damage Report - Elon Musk Pulls Aggressive Stunt to Block The Onion's Purchase of InfoWars
 

On 11/15/2024 at 1:52 AM, TheVat said:

Good news for you:

Funding for NPR comes from dues and fees paid by member stations, underwriting from corporate sponsors, and annual grants from the publicly funded Corporation for Public Broadcasting. Most of its member stations are owned by non-profit organizations, including public school districts, colleges, and universities. NPR operates independently of any government or corporation, and has full control of its content.

All I can say is, if you like their content, please donate.  TFG and his minions could manage to scare off some corporate donors, so citizen donors will matter more.  

There must be a better way to fund brave journalists without giving to media outlets, public or private, that might have issues with overhead,  click-baity tactics, or stalwarts.  Corruption and war journalists are brave people with integrity.

 

On 11/13/2024 at 9:13 PM, exchemist said:

Well Trump is a troll so it's quite funny he got trolled by Putin. Putin will be overjoyed at the result. Autocrats all over the world will see this result as confirmation that democracy - both in the US and more widely - is a weak and flabby system whose time is up. And there is no doubt it is in retreat now. 

That is, electoral democracy, the version with the kinds of deregulation that followed the Citizens United ruling, is what is proving weak and flabby.  For that standpoint, it could be regarded as doing what it was supposed to do, which is serving corporate interests and protecting the economic status of the ruling class.  Putin the oligarch knows this.  They no doubt studied Marx's and Lenin's real views on capitalism and democracy in their school curricula.  It's americans who've been condition by derogating reporters to not know the difference.

[exchemist]

1 hour ago, MonDie said:

My bad.  It is Elon Musk who is getting involved in the case involving The Onion.
The Damage Report - Elon Musk Pulls Aggressive Stunt to Block The Onion's Purchase of InfoWars
 

There must be a better way to fund brave journalists without giving to media outlets, public or private, that might have issues with overhead,  click-baity tactics, or stalwarts.  Corruption and war journalists are brave people with integrity.

 

That is, electoral democracy, the version with the kinds of deregulation that followed the Citizens United ruling, is what is proving weak and flabby.  For that standpoint, it could be regarded as doing what it was supposed to do, which is serving corporate interests and protecting the economic status of the ruling class.  Putin the oligarch knows this.  They no doubt studied Marx's and Lenin's real views on capitalism and democracy in their school curricula.  It's americans who've been condition by derogating reporters to not know the difference.

As far as I know, there is no workable system of democracy other than electoral democracy. So I think your distinction is of little significance in practice.