Entering cold water

[Genady]

Why does jumping into cold water feel less shocking when I inhale and hold breath while jumping in?

[Moontanman]

That is an interesting observation, I for one, hate getting in cold water! I have noticed it's better to just jump in than trying to slowly acclimate to the water. 

[TheVat]

2 hours ago, Genady said:

Why does jumping into cold water feel less shocking when I inhale and hold breath while jumping in?

Holding breath is a way to focus mind, so it helps mentally to brace oneself and be stoic?  People tend to tighten the diaphragm when enduring something - that's why in a crisis people are often reminded to take deep breaths, so they don't restrain their breath too much.  

Also having a held breath means you have plenty of air for saying AUUUGGGHHHHHH!  😁

[Genady]

28 minutes ago, TheVat said:

Holding breath is a way to focus mind, so it helps mentally to brace oneself and be stoic?

It might be so, while the other possibility is that inhaling and holding breath while entering water takes my mind away from the "pain" of being hit by the cold water.

49 minutes ago, Moontanman said:

I have noticed it's better to just jump in than trying to slowly acclimate to the water. 

Yes, I've noticed it as well. Another "trick" that works for me is, while standing in the shallow, before putting the body in the water, I put my face in or simply splash the cold water on the face. The face does not feel much, but it somehow prepares the whole body, and the shock is diminished quite a lot.

[Moontanman]

Have you considered that holding your breath is part of the mammalian diving response? 

[TheVat]

Looks like cold water on the face effect has been studied.

https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/circj/70/6/70_6_773/_article

Background

Cold-water face immersion (FI) is known to produce physiological changes, including bradycardia, by stimulating the parasympathetic system. However, other factors such as sympathetic activity, intrapleural pressures, and changes in chemical mediators may also contribute to these changes.

Methods and Results

Eight healthy volunteers underwent a series of experiments designed to observe the effects of FI on heart rate and its variability, as detected using wavelet transformation...

[toucana]

6 hours ago, TheVat said:

Looks like cold water on the face effect has been studied.

https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/circj/70/6/70_6_773/_article

Background

Cold-water face immersion (FI) is known to produce physiological changes, including bradycardia, by stimulating the parasympathetic system. However, other factors such as sympathetic activity, intrapleural pressures, and changes in chemical mediators may also contribute to these changes.

Methods and Results

Eight healthy volunteers underwent a series of experiments designed to observe the effects of FI on heart rate and its variability, as detected using wavelet transformation...

 

Just over a week ago there were press reports in the UK  of a freak accident in which music producer Julian Spear 74 died after jumping into an unheated pool at a West London health club.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14183051/accident-David-Lloyd-gym-killed-Coronation-Street-star-Carol-Royles-husband-brain-haemorrhage.html

It attracted much media attention, partly because he was the husband of Carol Royle -  an actress in a popular TV soap opera called Coronation Street -  but also because he had seen steam rising from the pool and assumed it was heated to its usual temperature before plunging head-first into  it.

He survived the initial shock and drove home, but subsequently collapsed, and later died in hospital from the effects of a massive brain haemorrhage that was apparently precipitated by the cold water shock.

According to his distraught wife  - “He was the healthiest person you could meet, he ate organic wholefood. He was a keen jogger, he would run every day. He used to cycle to the shops rather than drive and he'd go for a walk after every meal.”

A blog discussion that mentions the medical issues said:

Quote

 

Physician experts have weighed in on Spear's cause of death, emphasizing how sudden immersion in icy water could exacerbate pre-existing health issues, particularly focusing on how it could lead to sharp spikes in blood pressure. Such extreme changes can trigger serious medical problems, especially for someone who perhaps took for granted his regular fitness routine.

https://evrimagaci.org/tpg/tragic-passing-of-coronation-street-stars-husband-86465?srsltid=AfmBOoo6b9ePyn7mAUWy_ls8_c--nTPKQht9OHCpLaUUS328WUXtuuCY

 

 

So I suspect that partial pre-immersion of the face or lower body can perhaps mitigate the effects of cold water shock.

 

[Genady]

9 hours ago, Moontanman said:

Have you considered that holding your breath is part of the mammalian diving response? 

No, I didn't consider this connection.

9 hours ago, TheVat said:

Looks like cold water on the face effect has been studied.

https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/circj/70/6/70_6_773/_article

Background

Cold-water face immersion (FI) is known to produce physiological changes, including bradycardia, by stimulating the parasympathetic system. However, other factors such as sympathetic activity, intrapleural pressures, and changes in chemical mediators may also contribute to these changes.

Methods and Results

Eight healthy volunteers underwent a series of experiments designed to observe the effects of FI on heart rate and its variability, as detected using wavelet transformation...

Thank you.

2 hours ago, toucana said:

that was apparently precipitated by the cold water shock.

Interesting, but the connection to the water temperature is not clear to me. It could be a coincidence that the water happened to be cold, couldn't it? Maybe the plunging head-first did it. Or jumping itself, if he had an undiscovered brain aneurysm. Etc.

Edited December 18 by Genady

[toucana]

4 hours ago, Genady said:

Interesting, but the connection to the water temperature is not clear to me. It could be a coincidence that the water happened to be cold, couldn't it? Maybe the plunging head-first did it. Or jumping itself, if he had an undiscovered brain aneurysm. Etc.

Here is a relevant section from the RNLI (Royal National Lifeboat Institution) online safety advice on cold water shock:

https://rnli.org/safety/know-the-risks/cold-water-shock

Quote

Cold water shock causes the blood vessels in the skin to close, which increases the resistance of blood flow. Heart rate is also increased. As a result the heart has to work harder and your blood pressure goes up. Cold water shock can therefore cause heart attacks, even in the relatively young and healthy.

The body responds to an abrupt loss of heat from a sudden immersion in cold water by shutting down the peripheral blood circulation. This muscular vasoconstriction effect can cause an upward spike in systolic blood pressure. If someone happens to have a latent aneurysm (weak spot) in a blood vessel in their brain, then this spike can cause a rupture and haemorrhage.

[Phi for All]

22 hours ago, Genady said:

Another "trick" that works for me is, while standing in the shallow, before putting the body in the water, I put my face in or simply splash the cold water on the face. The face does not feel much, but it somehow prepares the whole body, and the shock is diminished quite a lot.

I've observed that fanning cool air to the face makes me feel just as comfortable in the heat as cooling the whole room with AC. It's like if the face feels cool the rest of the body agrees.

[TheVat]

A bit confusing since cold immersion also can cause bradycardia, which lowers BP, as in the MDR which @Moontanman mentioned.  From the sources cited by @toucana it sounds like the main effect with cold water, however, is raised BP and accelerated heart rate.  So I guess the cold shock "wins out" over the MDR.  Better be careful, Genady, hehe.  

Paul Newman used to immerse his face in icy water, which he said kept him handsome. 

[Genady]

Thanks guys. I think it is important to clarify that my so called "cold water" is much warmer than 15°C.

[StringJunky]

5 hours ago, Phi for All said:

I've observed that fanning cool air to the face makes me feel just as comfortable in the heat as cooling the whole room with AC. It's like if the face feels cool the rest of the body agrees.

I think your body's temp responses are geared to maintaining homeostasis in the brain.

[TheVat]

22 hours ago, Genady said:

Thanks guys. I think it is important to clarify that my so called "cold water" is much warmer than 15°C.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_swimming

International winter and ice swimming competitions take place around the world with two of the larger organizing bodies being the International Ice Swimming Association and the International Winter Swimming Association. Both organizations have similar competition guidelines including water temperatures typically below 5 °C (41 °F), a 25 metres (82 ft) pool often cut out of frozen bodies of water, and swimmers limited to goggles, one standard bathing suit, and one latex or silicone cap - neoprene is not allowed.

Edited Thursday at 04:36 PM by TheVat
missing link

[Genady]

34 minutes ago, TheVat said:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_swimming

International winter and ice swimming competitions take place around the world with two of the larger organizing bodies being the International Ice Swimming Association and the International Winter Swimming Association. Both organizations have similar competition guidelines including water temperatures typically below 5 °C (41 °F), a 25 metres (82 ft) pool often cut out of frozen bodies of water, and swimmers limited to goggles, one standard bathing suit, and one latex or silicone cap - neoprene is not allowed.

They did it in Russia, but not in Azerbaijan. It was entertaining to see them on TV.

I scuba dove in a quary in PA in winter when most of the surface was frozen. But I wore dry suit with sweater and sweatpants. Very cozy.

[LuckyR]

On 12/18/2024 at 12:38 AM, toucana said:

 

Just over a week ago there were press reports in the UK  of a freak accident in which music producer Julian Spear 74 died after jumping into an unheated pool at a West London health club.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14183051/accident-David-Lloyd-gym-killed-Coronation-Street-star-Carol-Royles-husband-brain-haemorrhage.html

It attracted much media attention, partly because he was the husband of Carol Royle -  an actress in a popular TV soap opera called Coronation Street -  but also because he had seen steam rising from the pool and assumed it was heated to its usual temperature before plunging head-first into  it.

He survived the initial shock and drove home, but subsequently collapsed, and later died in hospital from the effects of a massive brain haemorrhage that was apparently precipitated by the cold water shock.According to his distraught wife  - “He was the healthiest person you could meet, he ate organic wholefood. He was a keen jogger, he would run every day. He used to cycle to the shops rather than drive and he'd go for a walk after every meal.”.

Well, a 74 year old who was active has weathered countless episodes of "high blood pressure" brief spikes, so popping a brain aneurism and dying of a massive stroke was likely caused by the cold immersion, however if he had not done so, likely would have died similarly from a different, yet similar brief blood pressure spike, say a near miss on the highway while driving etc. In other words the risk was his brain vascular vulnerability, not the unheated pool. 

Edited Thursday at 06:39 PM by LuckyR

[paulsutton]

On 12/18/2024 at 1:35 AM, Moontanman said:

Have you considered that holding your breath is part of the mammalian diving response? 

Good point,  apparently babies can do this as a response to entering water,  

[Genady]

53 minutes ago, paulsutton said:

babies can do this as a response to entering water

Right, but I do it intentionally, before entering the water.

[Moontanman]

On 12/18/2024 at 1:30 PM, Genady said:

Thanks guys. I think it is important to clarify that my so called "cold water" is much warmer than 15°C.

Me too, lol