Division of Russia between the Western world and China

[CharonY]

3 minutes ago, m_m said:

The bad thing is that the truth about Zelenskyi was told by Trump. That's why it was depreciated. 

No, I am not russian, because I'm Ukrainian. I hate russia and all russians.

You are in the minority then. Things told by Trump are not depreciated, they are just fact-checked. If you cannot comprehend the difference, discussing your opinions is probably not very useful. It does look like you agree with the man who thinks that Ukraine should belong to Russia.

10 minutes ago, m_m said:

No, he is not Churchill, not even close. He is hiding behind the back of the Army. People in Ukraine don't like him.

Yet he decided not to leave the country when everyone thought that Russia is going to take over Ukraine within days.

 

2 hours ago, exchemist said:

Yeah and now, with $$$ signs in his eyes, Trump is actually accusing Zelensky, a man who has out-Churchilled Churchill for his country, of being a dictator! WTF? 

This is neither her nor there, but Churchill is a bit of a problematic character (as virtually everyone, which is a bit of an issue in itself) but he got lionized because of his resistance to the Nazis.

[Phi for All]

6 minutes ago, m_m said:

No, I am not russian, because I'm Ukrainian. I hate russia and all russians.

Then you're in the minority of Ukrainians in your dislike of Zelensky, and what you claimed earlier is still wrong, and supports the Russians you claim to hate.

[m_m]

Just now, CharonY said:

Yet he decided not to leave the country when everyone thought that Russia is going to take over Ukraine within days.

Decided not leave? This was his duty, and not an achievement. 

He didn't warn people about invasion.

Just now, Phi for All said:

Then you're in the minority of Ukrainians in your dislike of Zelensky, and what you claimed earlier is still wrong, and supports the Russians you claim to hate.

It's very easy to judge from afar. You don't know the situation inside the country.

And again, you should talk to Ukrainian militaries. 

Just now, Phi for All said:

and supports the Russians

How can you think for me?! On what right??

 

Edited February 19 by m_m

[Phi for All]

41 minutes ago, m_m said:

How can you think for me?! On what right??

Claiming Zelensky is unpopular when recent polling shows otherwise supports the Russian position. I'm not thinking for you, but you don't appear to be thinking at all. If you hate the Russians so much, who better than Zelensky to stand up to them?

[swansont]

46 minutes ago, m_m said:

Decided not leave? This was his duty, and not an achievement. 

He did his duty, then. Give him some credit for that. It puts him way ahead of some.

46 minutes ago, m_m said:

He didn't warn people about invasion.

If you warn people about an invasion and it doesn’t happen, you lose credibility while also causing panic and economic chaos, which Ukraine probably wanted to avoid*. Do it a few times and nobody pays attention anymore. It’s quite possible that if Zelenskyy had sounded an alarm, Putin would have delayed the invasion to undermine him. 

Zelenskyy didn’t believe an invasion was imminent. The US shared some intelligence, but the US didn’t have a lot of credibility owing to recent intelligence failures (e.g. Iraq, Afghanistan) and they didn’t share all of it, because of Russian spies in Ukraine; it might reveal the sources of the information, and the US wasn’t willing to risk that until after the invasion happened.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/interactive/2022/ukraine-road-to-war/

*which happened anyway, because of the US warnings. So some in Ukraine were paying attention, even if you weren’t

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/us-warnings-russia-invade-frustrate-ukrainians-rcna16358

[CharonY]

Well, in addition to standing up to Russia, one can add standing up to the US. As per the NY times:

Quote

In a public confrontation unlike any seen between an American president and foreign leader in modern times, Mr. Trump and Mr. Vance castigated Mr. Zelensky for not being grateful enough for U.S. support in its war with Russia and sought to strong-arm him into making a peace deal on whatever terms the Americans dictate.

With voices raised and tempers flaring, Mr. Trump threatened to abandon Ukraine altogether if Mr. Zelensky did not go along. After journalists were escorted out of the Oval Office, Mr. Trump canceled the rest of the visit, including a planned joint news conference and signing ceremony for the minerals deal. A grim-faced Mr. Zelensky then strode out of the West Wing, climbed into a waiting black sport utility vehicle and departed the White House grounds.

https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/politics/100000010019918/trump-zelensky-vance-ukraine.html?smid=url-share

 

Pretty insane. Or normal for this administration, which apparently still thinks that they are doing reality TV. I hope the Europeans step up.

[swansont]

1 hour ago, CharonY said:

Well, in addition to standing up to Russia, one can add standing up to the US. As per the NY times:

https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/politics/100000010019918/trump-zelensky-vance-ukraine.html?smid=url-share

 

Pretty insane. Or normal for this administration, which apparently still thinks that they are doing reality TV. I hope the Europeans step up.

Poland has

“Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk voiced supported (sic) for Ukraine following the dispute between Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and U.S. President Donald Trump at the White House on Feb. 28.”

https://kyivindependent.com/polish-pm-tusk-voices-support-for-ukraine-amid-zelensky-trump-clash/

[CharonY]

I believe that the US contributed about 40% of all the funds for the Ukraine. Assuming that this stops, the remaining partners would need to almost double their efforts, just to keep things the same. Which might not be enough if the US decides to lift sanctions on Russia (though I am not sure how much impact the current ones have).

At least there seems to be universal support, the question is only if additional help materializes and how fast.

[m_m]

Yes, Ukraine depends on the support of the US. And Zelenskyi had to be diplomatic, because he represents Ukraine, the country in war, and not himself. How disrespectful his attitude towards Ukraine and the US is.

Trump cuts straight to the point, if he leaves Ukraine without support, putler will be glad. 

Edited 9 hours ago by m_m

[CharonY]

53 minutes ago, m_m said:

Yes, Ukraine depends on the support of the US. And Zelenskyi had to be diplomatic, because he represents Ukraine, the country in war, and not himself. How disrespectful his attitude towards Ukraine and the US is.

Trump cuts straight to the point, if he leaves Ukraine without support, putler will be glad. 

So what do you think would have been the right response to the US ambush?

[m_m]

It is not about sarcasm. 

Zelenskyi is the president and has responsibility for his country and people. 

I read a comment in the internet: "both actors are from the russian theater". 

[swansont]

Trump has been trying to shake down Ukraine, and this was not the first time. It’s ludicrous to think there was anything Zelenskyy could do that would garner Trump’s support, since Trump is a Russian stooge.

[CharonY]

Plus there was the comment at the end that this was great television, clearly suggesting that this was a planned farce.

[npts2020]

I guess Zelensky isn't really a dictator now or he would be a great friend and role model for our President.