US spend massive and massive about of money on cancer research compared to Japan, South Korea, Singapore, China and Taiwan?

[CharonY]

One big issue with these studies is that almost by definition nothing you consume is fully inert. I.e. it is rare to have a binary yes/no response. To make it more complicated, quantification of responses is also not harmonized and there is no perfect marker which we could measure to estimate e.g., total inflammation levels.

There is little doubt that highly processed food is bad, but to say exactly how bad is tricky. It is also compounded by the fact that folks consuming it, also tend to overeat. One of the reason is the earlier mentioned addition of sugar.

The whole area of nutrition and its long-term effects suffers from similar methodological challenges, which is why there is really no clear quantitative measure to tell you what, in which amount and in what combination might be good for you to consume. We tend to fall back to fairly safe bets, but even very large cohort studies are not providing clear directions.

[exchemist]

13 hours ago, CharonY said:

One thing I noticed is that in US processed foods there is way more sugar than in Europe. Also portion sizes are off. Kids get used to that esrly on and sadly the trend is also invading other countries.

I feel sure the extra sugar in the US is in large part due to the decades-long inculcation of the  "coca cola culture" which has, through incessant lifestyle marketing, habituated the US palate to sweetness. Drinking sweet beverages with a meal seems to be normal. In France that would be thought barbaric - and ultimately of course it can be bariatric 😄. 

I recall a US colleague, on a visit to our Hamburg office, expressing astonishment, almost to the point of panic, that there was no soft drink dispenser. Coffee there was of course, but he seemed to need his coca cola.  

[CharonY]

2 minutes ago, exchemist said:

I feel sure the extra sugar in the US is in large part due to the decades-long inculcation of the  "coca cola culture" which has, through incessant lifestyle marketing, habituated the US palate to sweetness. Drinking sweet beverages with a meal seems to be normal. In France that would be thought barbaric - and ultimately of course it can be bariatric 😄. 

There were a few studies back in the days that traced habituation to sweets to sugar and vanilla extracts in baby food and formula. I.e., it is even sneakier than soft drinks, as you basically get folks addicted to sugar in the cradle. It was a few decades ago so I am not sure whether I got the timeline correct, but I think at least in part due to these findings, there are EU regulations regarding what types of sugar (e.g. lactose) area allowed and which additives (e.g., sucrose) are not.

[TheVat]

1 hour ago, CharonY said:

To make it more complicated, quantification of responses is also not harmonized and there is no perfect marker which we could measure to estimate e.g., total inflammation levels.

Yep, data is very clouded.  For example, you find research saying omega 6 fatty acids are inflammatory (when not balanced by omega 3 FA), but then olive oil is also seen as anti inflammatory though the 6 to 3 ratio is 10:1.  (because it has oleocanthal and other phenolic compounds, and also MUFAs)  Just one example - there are so many nutrients that can impact inflammation levels.  Xantham gum is constantly debated as to its inflammatory effect, last I looked.  And don't wade into the thickets on FODMAP foods, you'll never come back, lol.  Gut biomes vary a lot.

A big problem in the US is that so much processed food will have some touted anti-inflammatory food in it, e.g. peppers or spinach or walnuts, but those will be added in too small a proportion to do any good.  Whereas in Europe a family would more likely purchase those items individually and then add them in more generous quantities to something they cook themselves.  Dishes that don't have stabilizers and emulsifiers and corn syrup and carrageenan and xantham gum and all this other crap. 

[CharonY]

3 minutes ago, TheVat said:

A big problem in the US is that so much processed food will have some touted anti-inflammatory food in it, e.g. peppers or spinach or walnuts, but those will be added in too small a proportion to do any good.  Whereas in Europe a family would more likely purchase those items individually and then add them in more generous quantities to something they cook themselves.  Dishes that don't have stabilizers and emulsifiers and corn syrup and carrageenan and xantham gum and all this other crap. 

And to add to all of that, pro- and anti-inflammatory categorization is also a simplification of the mechanisms that are happening. Sometimes, it is an extrapolation of in vitro experiments but then it is not clear whether oral consumption would have similar effects, for example. I have not seen smoking-gun level of evidence of the benefits yet. But to be fair, it is easier to figure out harmful stuff (for the most part).

I would not glamorize European diets too much, though. The US sticks out but the trends are not great in many, if not most countries. In almost all countries obesity rates are increasing, but I think in countries with a strong food culture the rates tend to be a tick lower. It depends a bit on the precise measure, though.

[swansont]

1 hour ago, exchemist said:

I feel sure the extra sugar in the US is in large part due to the decades-long inculcation of the  "coca cola culture" which has, through incessant lifestyle marketing, habituated the US palate to sweetness. Drinking sweet beverages with a meal seems to be normal. In France that would be thought barbaric - and ultimately of course it can be bariatric 😄. 

I recall a US colleague, on a visit to our Hamburg office, expressing astonishment, almost to the point of panic, that there was no soft drink dispenser. Coffee there was of course, but he seemed to need his coca cola.  

I recall the vending machines in France (~25 years ago) sold diet coke…in 100 ml cans. 

And there are foods available in the US that are banned in other countries because of preservatives, dyes or trans fats, all thought to impact health. Allowed in the US because of lobbying putting corporate profits first.

[Phi for All]

17 minutes ago, TheVat said:

Xantham gum is constantly debated as to its inflammatory effect, last I looked. 

I've always suspected that it's not a good idea to thicken and hold in suspension the food you're trying to digest partially via gravity and movement. It's very eye-opening to feel aches and pains go away after removing these stabilisers from your diet.

[CharonY]

2 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

I've always suspected that it's not a good idea to thicken and hold in suspension the food you're trying to digest partially via gravity and movement. It's very eye-opening to feel aches and pains go away after removing these stabilisers from your diet.

Not sure whether that is a factor. It would suggest that food of various consistency would create equal issue. The inflammatory responses are mostly assumed to happen due to the the way the various sugars (which make up many stabilizers) interact with the gut and gut microbiome. But as TheVat mentioned, the effects are not quite clear.

16 minutes ago, swansont said:

I recall the vending machines in France (~25 years ago) sold diet coke…in 100 ml cans. 

And there are foods available in the US that are banned in other countries because of preservatives, dyes or trans fats, all thought to impact health. Allowed in the US because of lobbying putting corporate profits first.

The EU has also a generally more cautious approach. I.e. the threshold for banning is lower requiring less evidence. But obviously politics also plays a role.