Trump wants Greenland again - Oh, and the Panama Canal too.

[toucana]

According to reports in The Hill and elsewhere President-elect Trump said on Sunday evening on social media that owning Greenland “is an absolute necessity”

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5053319-trump-greenland-purchase/

Trump also gave a speech to a conservative group demanding the return of the Panama Canal to US control (some 50 years after the canal zone was ceded to Panama) citing “ridiculous shipping fees” as the reason.

Trump originally proposed trading Puerto Rico for Greenland back in 2019 during his first term in office - much to the bemusement of Danish Prime Minister Mette Fredericksen who called the idea “absurd” telling reporters at the time “Greenland is not Danish. Greenland is Greenlandic. I persistently hope that this is not something that is seriously meant.”

In the case of Greenland, Trump  - along with the minority of his advisers who don’t think that global warming is a Chinese hoax -  are presumably attracted by the idea that the loss of Greenland’s icecap will expose a treasure trove of extractable mineral ores, oil and natural gas.They also probably imagine that no one else in the entire world has thought of this possibility either.

But why is Trump so interested in the Panama Canal, well before he is even due to take office ? Part of the answer can be found in this YT video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Sv_Wv_Ui1A

Back in 2018, Trump owned management companies were accused of substantial tax fraud in respect of the partial sale of a 70 storey tower hotel called the Trump Ocean Club in Panama to a private equity firm called Ithaca.

https://www.propublica.org/article/trump-companies-accused-tax-evasion-panama

Ithaca subsequently ousted the Trump Organization who unsuccessfully petitioned Panamanian President Juan Carlos Varela to intercede on their behalf. The Trump team were physically thrown out of the premises by Ithaca security teams, and the Trump logo was very publicly hacked off  the frontage of the hotel which was later renamed the JW Marriot Panama.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JW_Marriott_Panama

More recently  in February 2024, Laura Loomer who is a whackadoodle  9/11 conspiracy theorist and ally of Trump began urging him to seize the Panama Canal as soon as he takes office.

Happy Days !

 

Edited December 23, 2024 by toucana
corrected "loss of" para 3

[MigL]

D Trump had better check with his boss, E Musk, before making any more demands.

[exchemist]

11 minutes ago, toucana said:

According to reports in The Hill and elsewhere President-elect Trump said on Sunday evening on social media that owning Greenland “is an absolute necessity”

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5053319-trump-greenland-purchase/

Trump also gave a speech to a conservative group demanding the return of the Panama Canal to US control (some 50 years after the canal zone was ceded to Panama) citing “ridiculous shipping fees” as the reason.

Trump originally proposed trading Puerto Rico for Greenland back in 2019 during his first term in office - much to the bemusement of Danish Prime Minister Mette Fredericksen who called the idea “absurd” telling reporters at the time “Greenland is not Danish. Greenland is Greenlandic. I persistently hope that this is not something that is seriously meant.”

In the case of Greenland, Trump  - along with the minority of his advisers who don’t think that global warming is a Chinese hoax -  are presumably attracted by the idea that the loss of Greenland’s icecap will expose a treasure trove of extractable mineral ores, oil and natural gas.They also probably imagine that no one else in the entire world has thought of this possibility either.

But why is Trump so interested in the Panama Canal, well before he is even due to take office ? Part of the answer can be found in this YT video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Sv_Wv_Ui1A

Back in 2018, Trump owned management companies were accused of substantial tax fraud in respect of the partial sale of a 70 storey tower hotel called the Trump Ocean Club in Panama to a private equity firm called Ithaca.

https://www.propublica.org/article/trump-companies-accused-tax-evasion-panama

Ithaca subsequently ousted the Trump Organization who unsuccessfully petitioned Panamanian President Juan Carlos Varela to intercede on their behalf. The Trump team were physically thrown out of the premises by Ithaca security teams, and the Trump logo was very publicly hacked off  the frontage of the hotel which was later renamed the JW Marriot Panama.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JW_Marriott_Panama

More recently  in February 2024, Laura Loomer who is a whackadoodle  9/11 conspiracy theorist and ally of Trump began urging him to seize the Panama Canal as soon as he takes office.

Happy Days !

 

This sort of ill-considered, threatening shit is what we are all going to have to put up with, on a daily basis, for at least the next 4 years. It's terribly wearing. Most of it won't see the light of day, as the Pentagon or whoever will point out it's utterly mad and impractical. But some of it could be Trump's idea of a kind of protection-racket negotiating ploy. Give me something (whatever it may be) and I'll stop threatening to annex part of your territory, kind of thing. Trouble is we don't know what is a ploy and what is just mad or a brain fart. So everyone gets sleepless nights, all the time.

What an arsehole. And what's worse, elected by the American people, knowing he's an arsehole.  

[CharonY]

Well, folks apparently got what they want. I suppose that many also think that bullying is a demonstration of strength. But then the internet has regressed everyone to highschool students again. I guess it is at least internally consistent...

[DeepBlueSouth]

america deserves this. not gonna lie. I feel sorry for the rest of the world, but after forty years of life in this country, I cannae help but admit that this crooked dotard is uniquely perfect to represent this nation of racist, xenophobic, misogynistic clowns; and those oppressed by these same people, but who simply won't vote for unnecessary personal reasons. the ones who keep falling for russian propaganda, spouted by americans though it is, there is simply no hope for. they will believe anything podcasters tell them to and ignore the obvious.

joe-y rogain-e [turns out around ten million viewers a day can indeed be woefully wrong] told them trump was an idiot and never to vote for him [oddly sound advice coming from him], then he gets a block of cash to do a new standup "comedy" special [which, for the sake of this conversation, did not do well at all; nobody would have produced this for him, he is not selling well because of the things that come out of his freaking mouth] and then suddenly after that new money, a few weeks later, he begs his radio clan to vote for the guy he had begged them not to vote for before he just got all the money to produce that failure of a standup special [couldn't even book a tour with it, he can only get so many butts in seats]. he is not the only podcaster to have a story like this is 2024. there are now dozens of people with his "profession" who are participating witnesses and/or defendants in an espionage case with various federal agencies because the Kremlin [or connected individuals therein] was paying right wing american podcasters to promote russian talking points [which many republican congresspeople like mine have also been "mysteriously" doing for years now, doubtlessly out of the goodness of their hearts {hahaha}].

I know why so much of the establishment and the elite people who tell the rest of them what to do were against the republican candidate for once... if anything is gonna turn everyone else down here with us against this system and this form of government and to quit watching [only] the mainstream news [uncritically, thus ignoring more important and/or less shared stories].... all this ought to do it. they wanted us to be content with stale cake and moldy bread and tired circuses. yea, that american exceptionalism crap just ain't gonna do it anymore. we want work, we want homes, we want futures, we want peace. let Greenland and the go******d Panama Canal take care of themselves, russia can go mind their own problems for a change, and they'd better get started, they have more ground to cover than the US and that's saying a LOT.

once again, the democrats just looked for the "best suited for helping the rich criminals get off in court" candidate to continue their life's work to help the monied interests of this country in elected office... and the gqp just couldn't ditch their adjudicated rapist, convicted felon, third rate excuse for a carnival barker, and future Miranda Law candidate who can't even dress himself; and as usual, that did not work out for literally any of us.

[iNow]

The President of Congo just offered the United States ownership of his country’s minerals to entice President Trump to put an end to the war backed by Rwanda. Congo holds more than half the world’s Cobalt and Colton. They also have substantial deposits of Gold, Copper, Tin, Lithium, etc. China currently has a considerable influence in Congo’s mineral sector, and before them, it was the Europeans.

 

https://x.com/behizytweets/status/1893351121386905911?s=46&t=QjfV_ZHNvP2ulzJ-j8JFcg

[J.C.MacSwell]

Not sure whether to laugh...or cry

[Trurl]

Russia takes Ukraine. China takes Taiwan. We get Greenland.

Trump brought this up in his message to Congress. If you listen closely he said we need it and we’re going to get it one way.

This is a recipe for war.

You can’t accuse Russia in Ukraine than do the same.

What if the Ukraine peace deal is to split Ukraine between the U.S. and Russia?

[CharonY]

Well that happens when the Russian president and his puppet are running the show.

[exchemist]

6 hours ago, Trurl said:

Russia takes Ukraine. China takes Taiwan. We get Greenland.

Trump brought this up in his message to Congress. If you listen closely he said we need it and we’re going to get it one way.

This is a recipe for war.

You can’t accuse Russia in Ukraine than do the same.

What if the Ukraine peace deal is to split Ukraine between the U.S. and Russia?

Yes, it is a recipe for war: war between the EU and the USA. And war between Canada and the USA as well: let's not forget Trump wants to annex Canada, having crushed it economically. Trudeau's speech makes crystal clear that that is not a joke. Trump means it.

Trump seems to be engaged in deliberately wrecking relations with all the other members of the Western alliance. It looks as if his idea is to remake the globe into Orwell's Nineteen Eighty Four power blocs: Eastasia, Eurasia and Oceania. 

Europe has certainly got the message it is on its own now. As has Canada.  

[Phi for All]

12 hours ago, Trurl said:

Russia takes Ukraine. China takes Taiwan. We get Greenland.

Trump brought this up in his message to Congress. If you listen closely he said we need it and we’re going to get it one way.

This is a recipe for war.

You can’t accuse Russia in Ukraine than do the same.

What if the Ukraine peace deal is to split Ukraine between the U.S. and Russia?

How do you feel about your president invading a sovereign nation, not because they pose a threat, but because he claims we "need it"? This is even controversial amongst his base, since Greenland has never been an aggressor against the US. 

"We get Greenland"?! Personally, I think anyone who approves of this is a horrible person, the kind of intolerant citizen we absolutely can't tolerate if we're to progress at all in removing war as a solution for humankind. You and those who think like you are setting up the US to be a pariah to the rest of the world. If it happens as you predict, we'll lose every ally we have as they all prepare to defend themselves and their democracies from the authoritarians in Russia, North Korea, China, and the USA. 

Are you a FB fan? I'm curious because I think Zuckerberg allowed so many Russian bots to influence Americans into thinking Russia is more dangerous and powerful than they really are. Without FB, Russia is just some nukes that they can't use without destroying themselves as well. Texas has a bigger GDP by a large margin. You talk about Russia like you've listened to all the Russian bot propaganda.

[geordief]

4 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

How do you feel about your president invading a sovereign nation, not because they pose a threat, but because he claims we "need it"? This is even controversial amongst his base, since Greenland has never been an aggressor against the US. 

"We get Greenland"?! Personally, I think anyone who approves of this is a horrible person, the kind of intolerant citizen we absolutely can't tolerate if we're to progress at all in removing war as a solution for humankind. You and those who think like you are setting up the US to be a pariah to the rest of the world. If it happens as you predict, we'll lose every ally we have as they all prepare to defend themselves and their democracies from the authoritarians in Russia, North Korea, China, and the USA. 

Are you a FB fan? I'm curious because I think Zuckerberg allowed so many Russian bots to influence Americans into thinking Russia is more dangerous and powerful than they really are. Without FB, Russia is just some nukes that they can't use without destroying themselves as well. Texas has a bigger GDP by a large margin. You talk about Russia like you've listened to all the Russian bot propaganda.

Have you misunderstood what the post you quoted was saying?

I felt it was criticizing Trump's greedy eyes and likening  his approach to that of Russia.

[Phi for All]

46 minutes ago, geordief said:

Have you misunderstood what the post you quoted was saying?

I felt it was criticizing Trump's greedy eyes and likening  his approach to that of Russia.

Maybe I was distracted by all the whataboutism regarding how we can't blame Russia if we're doing the same to Greenland. Maybe it was just stating that this all is "a recipe for war" without actually condemning such a war. But it was probably the flat statement that "We get Greenland" that made me think Trurl supports TFG, that and all his past posts defending the behavior.

[Trurl]

No I am not for conquering more countries. Just to be clear. I used We because I live in the U.S.

It would be different if Greenland allowed us to build military bases there. I have seen rumors on the internet that Russia was building bases in the North Pole. But that is just internet propaganda.

I support the U.S. military but why do we need a missile defense unless we plan on pissing off the rest of the world.

Space is next for military bases. I’m just glad every country gets along on the International Space Station.

[CharonY]

36 minutes ago, Trurl said:

No I am not for conquering more countries. Just to be clear. I used We because I live in the U.S.

It would be different if Greenland allowed us to build military bases there.

Dude, the US has a military base in Greenland.

[exchemist]

Trump would like to carve up the world between three strongmen leaders: himself, Xi and Putin. So he wants to annex Canada and Greenland, take back the Panama Canal for strategic access to both coasts and oceans by sea, get out of entanglements in Europe, which he sees an economic rival and nuisance with all its pathetic  concerns over outmoded ideas like  democracy and social welfare -  and let Xi have Taiwan, once he has got the chips being made in Arizona. If Putin fights with the EU, so much the better. It's Orwell's vision of Oceania, Eurasia and Eastasia.

[joigus]

Out of his depth, he is.

It's as if a realtor had taken charge of the world...

Hang on a minute... Has a realtor taken charge of the world?

May be so.

Maybe Frost was wrong and the world will end neither in ice nor in fire, but in a ton of bricks falling over our heads.

[Phi for All]

4 hours ago, Trurl said:

It would be different if Greenland allowed us to build military bases there.

Really, you'd change your mind about invading if we already had a base there?

4 hours ago, Trurl said:

Space is next for military bases. I’m just glad every country gets along on the International Space Station.

This would be a disaster. I already cringe at what they're putting in orbit. Having military mistakes spread across our entire atmosphere could make most environments toxic. 

 

[TheVat]

4 hours ago, CharonY said:

Dude, the US has a military base in Greenland.

That was funny.  Trurl is becoming the Bertie Wooster of SFN.

The base is there for now, anyway.  Pituffik (formerly Thule) exists under a NATO treaty agreement.  If we  the clown regime blows up NATO, then the US will constitute an invading force occupying that chunk of the Kingdom of Denmark.  Fun times.  If some more moderate administration follows Trump in 2028 (still a faint hope), I really pity the enormous mopping up operation they wil face.  

[Trurl]

Quote

 

Really, you'd change your mind about invading if we already had a base there?

Why do you keep saying I am for invading Greenland when I say it is a bad idea? It is better strategy to gain allies than to occupy countries.

isn’t that the art of war book. It is easy to conquer but it is useless if you can’t control. In other word you can destroy a country, but all the people will be against you.

Michio Kaku is my favorite scientist not Elon. Michio turned down a job to develop weapons to teach. He also is a U.S. Army Vet. He was drafted in the Vietnam era. He gives account of a demonstration of weapons that would obliterate the enemy. But at the same time he realized the weapons wouldn’t win the war.

I did not know of the military base in Greenland. We probably just want to drill baby drill. But I am joking when I say that. I don’t want to conquer Greenland or drill there.

But if we did conquer Greenland, imagine how much waste in their government we could eliminate. This would eliminate debt and improve the overall efficiency.

[geordief]

9 minutes ago, Trurl said:

But if we did conquer Greenland, imagine how much waste in their government we could eliminate. This would eliminate debt and improve the overall efficiency

That is  just weird.(being polite)

[Phi for All]

1 hour ago, Trurl said:

Why do you keep saying I am for invading Greenland when I say it is a bad idea?

Because you also said this in the same post:

1 hour ago, Trurl said:

But if we did conquer Greenland, imagine how much waste in their government we could eliminate. This would eliminate debt and improve the overall efficiency.

 

 

[exchemist]

6 hours ago, geordief said:

That is  just weird.(being polite)

Musht be a joke, shurely?😄 [with apologies to Bill Deedes]

[exchemist]

Here is an article from a few days ago, reporting the opinions of four previous British ambassadors to the USA: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/mar/05/seismic-shift-in-uk-us-relations-is-not-a-blip-warns-ex-ambassador.,  in support of my recent post about Oceania, Eurasia and Eastasia.  Serious people now see this scenario.

And stemming from that, serious people are now further concerned that the USA may cease to support the UK nuclear deterrent, Trident, which is a US system: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/mar/08/us-support-uk-nuclear-arsenal-in-doubt-trident-france. I wonder if France's Ariane Group can maintain it for us or if we have to refit our subs with Ariane nukes. That won't come cheap. Or quick.  

The extraordinary thing is that this 180 degree switch has taken place in the space of a mere six weeks. And nobody in the USA is able to challenge it, apparently, presumably because the Repubican waxworks in Congress are all terrified of Trump and his henchpeople. 

By the way, I read (was it here or somewhere else?) that Reuters has a report of US judges receiving pizza deliveries they have not ordered. This I gather is a well known signal that "we know where you live", designed to intimidate.  I've been forecasting for a few weeks that intimidation or sidelining of the judiciary would be the next thing. The beauty of this is that anonymous MAGA types can easily organise this kind of low level intimidation, quite deniably as far as the Trumpies are concerned. 

I also expect an attack on the independence of universities, which is another tactic from the Orban playbook the Trumpies are following. I note a report that $400m of grants has been removed from Columbia, on the pretext that they don't protect their Jewish students enough or something. Expect more of this, at universities with a reputation for leftish politics. 

[iNow]

3 hours ago, exchemist said:

I also expect an attack on the independence of universities,

He’s already pulling federal funding for those who had any protests in the last few years (like over Israel’s role in Gaza), and is canceling student debt relief for anyone engaged in “improper activity and serious crimes” which they’ve defined as including support for diversity and DEI.