Christianity (split from Christian nationalism)

[m_m]

9 hours ago, zapatos said:

Why don't religious types actually answer questions?

Yes, you are right. I had to write, "In my opinion,...". But I hear these words "Love your neighbor" from different people, atheists also. And in daily life, in ordinary talk, if one mentions Christianity, these words occur in the mind. 

Because it is actually a hard task - to love one's neighbor. You see, not to respect, not "to be friends", but TO LOVE. When you love, you need to diminish your ego, but these words continue "as you love yourself". And another question occurs: What does it mean to love yourself? 

 These words concern our urgent task in life - interaction with OTHERS. Because we live not in a desert, but among others. 

But you are right, I am not a theologist, these are only my thoughts.

9 hours ago, zapatos said:

Thanks for repeating yourself. Why do I bother?

 

I repeat myself, because I chose words carefully. It is a scientific forum, and I am not sure that I understand the Bible. I am not sure that I understand anything. 

But when you mention slavery you put the modern meaning in that word. I think it's important to be in a frame of mind of the biblical times. Words change their sense over time.

 

Edited Tuesday at 10:47 AM by m_m

[Genady]

30 minutes ago, m_m said:

Because it is actually a hard task - to love one's neighbor. You see, not to respect, not "to be friends", but TO LOVE. When you love, you need to diminish your ego, but these words continue "as you love yourself". And another question occurs: What does it mean to love yourself? 

Mistranslations and misinterpretations. 

Quote

the Bible is not commanding us to feel something—love—but to do something—to be useful or beneficial to help your neighbor.

as discussed here: “Love Your Neighbor as Yourself”—What It Really Means - The BAS Library

[m_m]

Atheists are also useful and helpful to one another.

And it sounds like imposition of the meaning of love. 

Archeology Society is not Theological Society. They use social sense, not religious. 

Edited Tuesday at 11:05 AM by m_m

[Genady]

5 minutes ago, m_m said:

Atheists are also useful and helpful to one another.

And it sounds like imposing of the meaning of love. 

Archeology Society is not Theological Society. They use social sense, not religious. 

My point is that you pick an interpretation as you like. They are only words. Humans make a meaning.

[m_m]

5 hours ago, Markus Hanke said:

But my point was that whether you are Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, atheist, something else entirely, or nothing at all, makes no difference - it’s always the same universe, so experiments performed on it have the same outcome, meaning you always find the same laws of nature, irrespective of any god concepts.

I don't agree. The tools of studying depend on the attitude towards the universe.

Just now, Genady said:

My point is that you pick an interpretation as you like. They are only words. Humans make a meaning.

And you remove theological and religious meaning of love. 

[Genady]

8 minutes ago, m_m said:

And you remove theological and religious meaning of love.

The word "love" appeared there in a translation and by necessity an interpretation of something written in a dead language.

[dimreepr]

1 hour ago, m_m said:

8 hours ago, Markus Hanke said:

But my point was that whether you are Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, atheist, something else entirely, or nothing at all, makes no difference - it’s always the same universe, so experiments performed on it have the same outcome, meaning you always find the same laws of nature, irrespective of any god concepts.

I don't agree. The tools of studying depend on the attitude towards the universe.

Then you don't understand what a tool is... 

1 hour ago, m_m said:

1 hour ago, Genady said:

My point is that you pick an interpretation as you like. They are only words. Humans make a meaning.

And you remove theological and religious meaning of love. 

Why and how???

The Bible's interpretation of love goes hand in hand with the word 'tolerate', and you don't even have to like your neighbours to do that... 🙄

[swansont]

!

Moderator Note

Split, because the discussion has shifted away from politics and toward religion (though because of merged respinnses, some other stuff has been dragged along)

 

[dimreepr]

1 hour ago, swansont said:

!

Moderator Note

Split, because the discussion has shifted away from politics and toward religion (though because of merged respinnses, some other stuff has been dragged along)

 

Is politics more pertinent???

[swansont]

3 hours ago, dimreepr said:

Is politics more pertinent???

In general, not for me to say. But “love thy neighbor” is religion and not politics unless Matt Gaetz is involved. Plus all the scripture

20 hours ago, m_m said:

The key question is that slavery in the Bible is in no way similar to the racial slavery that our world has suffered from for the past few centuries. 

In no way similar? It didn’t involve owning people, and making them do labor of various sorts? It didn’t involve buying people from other countries?

[Markus Hanke]

17 hours ago, m_m said:

I don't agree. The tools of studying depend on the attitude towards the universe.

My point was about outcomes, not tools. The laws of the universe don’t depend on anyone’s god concept, or lack thereof.

Take for example a simple table-top set-up, such as the Cavendish experiment. Anyone can do it, even at home in your own living room; and the outcome of the experiment will always be the exact same, regardless of the experimenter’s religious conviction - you always find the same Newtonian inverse square law, with the same gravitational constant. Concepts of a religious nature are simply irrelevant to the observed laws of nature - which is why you cannot draw conclusions about god (one way or the other) from the natural sciences.

[m_m]

On 1/28/2025 at 8:16 PM, swansont said:

love thy neighbor” is religion

Why religion? 

 

On 1/28/2025 at 8:16 PM, swansont said:

In no way similar

In no way similar to the racial slavery. 

And I would like to repeat these lines

This is the real slavery. 

12Didn’t we say to you in Egypt, ‘Leave us alone; let us serve the Egyptians’? It would have been better for us to serve the Egyptians than to die in the desert!” Exodus 14

 

On 1/28/2025 at 2:55 PM, dimreepr said:

The Bible's interpretation of love goes hand in hand with the word 'tolerate'

Who said this?

17 hours ago, Markus Hanke said:

My point was about outcomes, not tools. The laws of the universe don’t depend on anyone’s god concept, or lack thereof.

Take for example a simple table-top set-up, such as the Cavendish experiment. Anyone can do it, even at home in your own living room; and the outcome of the experiment will always be the exact same, regardless of the experimenter’s religious conviction - you always find the same Newtonian inverse square law, with the same gravitational constant. Concepts of a religious nature are simply irrelevant to the observed laws of nature - which is why you cannot draw conclusions about god (one way or the other) from the natural sciences.

I think I'll stay on my point of view.

On 1/28/2025 at 1:00 PM, m_m said:

Atheists are also useful and helpful to one another

aren't they?

[swansont]

27 minutes ago, m_m said:

Why religion? 

Since you followed this with a quote from Exodus, you lose all benefit of the doubt that you’re not trolling. As you sow,  so shall you reap.

29 minutes ago, m_m said:

In no way similar to the racial slavery. 

And I would like to repeat these lines

This is the real slavery. 

12Didn’t we say to you in Egypt, ‘Leave us alone; let us serve the Egyptians’? It would have been better for us to serve the Egyptians than to die in the desert!” Exodus 14

How ‘bout them cherries you’re picking.

[m_m]

I am not a troll. My question is about attitude towards ONE ANOTHER. This question concerns politics also. 

I just wanted to mention. Let's look at France. It's a good country, they help others a lot. But let's remember Olympics' opening. It was quite rude towards Christians and values at all. 

 

[iNow]

Allowing gay and transgendered people to express themselves openly and authentically and to be included in a celebration of diversity and humanity ought not be conflated with being “rude toward Christians,” and anyone who feels otherwise is too immature, bigoted, and ridiculous to deserve any attention 

[Markus Hanke]

6 hours ago, m_m said:

I think I'll stay on my point of view.

That’s of course your prerogative.

[dedo]

5 hours ago, m_m said:

I am not a troll. My question is about attitude towards ONE ANOTHER. This question concerns politics also. 

I just wanted to mention. Let's look at France. It's a good country, they help others a lot. But let's remember Olympics' opening. It was quite rude towards Christians and values at all. 

 

Not sure if this helps with your ? but here goes:

It might be more than politics, but a poorly understood psychopathology in society that can infect groups, including religions, that leads to tribalism or an "us & them" mindset, that helps fuel human conflict & impairs "love for others" which is supposed to mean "will the best for another".  Just examine rhetoric in people that have strong group / tribal identity, & it is common to see people overlook almost any moral violation in their tribe.  

Achieving the ability to "will the best for others", especially other groups, that Christianity exhorts is a life long endeavor.  Religions may have an important part to play in it though, especially if accompanied by science.  For example, religious visions during WWI in Fatima, Portugal, predicted future world wars that could be prevented or mitigated if enough Catholic Christians exercised "love one another" by saying certain prayers in reparation for the world.  Sadly few do those prayers.  Maybe if religions understood scientifically, the peril the world is in, they would make more of an effort to "love one another", at least for their own survival.  

So whatever your belief system, survival of humanity may depend on progress in that arena, meaning "love one another" specifically related to overcoming group on group conflict.  The Fermi paradox may be a filter that prevents intelligent life that fails to progress in that area from reaching the stars.  Violent intelligent cultures destroy themselves, most likely in the nuclear age.

[iNow]

You’re basically describing memes

[dimreepr]

13 hours ago, m_m said:

Who said this?

Someone in the bible, do you deny that tolerance was mentioned in the bible?

I think it might have been Jesus, whoever he/she was. 😉

[npts2020]

14 hours ago, m_m said:

In no way similar to the racial slavery. 

I have read this entire thread and still don't understand the difference between the slavery of the Jews and the slavery of Africans other than the amount of pigments in their epidermis and that some book claims one group is more deserving than another. Can you elaborate?