Is it possible to calm down individuals or large groups in post-conflict or conflict prone settings ?

[seanash]

If there are individuals or large groups who are forced to live around each other and if either party or both parties hate each other due to conflicts or past injustices commited by either or both of due to repulsion to each other (I.e various tribes or individuals find other tribe's or individual's practices abhorrent). Then is there a way to peacefully dissolve the situation and work towards peacebuilding ? 

Since there is a likelihood the hating parties or aggrieved parties would definately not be open to changing their views or would have a strong sense of righteousness , would such conflicts not be solvable by normal means ?

Are there any mainstream academic psychology , sociology or social science informed theories or practices that could help

[exchemist]

38 minutes ago, seanash said:

If there are individuals or large groups who are forced to live around each other and if either party or both parties hate each other due to conflicts or past injustices commited by either or both of due to repulsion to each other (I.e various tribes or individuals find other tribe's or individual's practices abhorrent). Then is there a way to peacefully dissolve the situation and work towards peacebuilding ? 

Since there is a likelihood the hating parties or aggrieved parties would definately not be open to changing their views or would have a strong sense of righteousness , would such conflicts not be solvable by normal means ?

Are there any mainstream academic psychology , sociology or social science informed theories or practices that could help

Post-apartheid S. Africa and N. Ireland would appear to be useful case studies. Why not take a look at them and consider the common features of their approaches to the problem?  I don't know what academic advice their respective governments may have taken, but I feel sure they must have sought out expertise in conflict resolution.  

[Genady]

2 hours ago, seanash said:

solvable by normal means

One of such means is to get or to make a common enemy.

[dimreepr]

3 hours ago, exchemist said:

Post-apartheid S. Africa and N. Ireland would appear to be useful case studies. Why not take a look at them and consider the common features of their approaches to the problem?  I don't know what academic advice their respective governments may have taken, but I feel sure they must have sought out expertise in conflict resolution.  

Indeed, once they painted themselves into a corner, they thought outside of the box...

4 hours ago, seanash said:

Are there any mainstream academic psychology , sociology or social science informed theories or practices that could help

Yes, when in a pub fight possibility, shout "hold me back" and hope to fuck that your mates aren't so pissed that they just ignore you, and settle down for the nights entertainment... 😉

[LuckyR]

On 2/4/2025 at 2:50 AM, Genady said:

One of such means is to get or to make a common enemy.

Exactly. That's why there won't be worldwide harmony until the Alien invasion. 

[iNow]

6 hours ago, LuckyR said:

Exactly. That's why there won't be worldwide harmony until the Alien invasion. 

The aliens will just further divide us, much like Covid 

[LuckyR]

19 hours ago, iNow said:

The aliens will just further divide us, much like Covid 

Well, while there were divisions about Covid POLICY, there was universal agreement that it was a bad thing to work against. 

[CharonY]

4 minutes ago, LuckyR said:

Well, while there were divisions about Covid POLICY, there was universal agreement that it was a bad thing to work against. 

Disagree, it was like this for perhaps two weeks. But there were plenty of folks who decided that it was not real, and even those dying from it claimed that the it is actually the hospitals that is killing them.

[iNow]

5 hours ago, LuckyR said:

Well, while there were divisions about Covid POLICY, there was universal agreement that it was a bad thing to work against. 

Which planet were you on 5 years ago when all that went down, and do you have an extra ticket so I may visit there myself?

5 hours ago, CharonY said:

Disagree, it was like this for perhaps two weeks. But there were plenty of folks who decided that it was not real, and even those dying from it claimed that the it is actually the hospitals that is killing them.

Maybe he meant that lots of people thought it would be bad for us to try working against it. Lol 

“there was universal agreement that it was a bad thing to work against”

[CharonY]

26 minutes ago, iNow said:

Which planet were you on 5 years ago when all that went down, and do you have an extra ticket so I may visit there myself?

Maybe he meant that lots of people thought it would be bad for us to try working against it. Lol 

“there was universal agreement that it was a bad thing to work against”

That would make a lot of sense. Like vaccinating folks against, you know, measles. Or perhaps not. I don't even know anymore. USA turned into North Korea. A brain worm seems to be leading health agencies, and folks consider one of their children dying from a preventable disease worth it to not vaccinate folks.

I am fairly sure something is pranking us all, but I cannot figure out who.

[dimreepr]

13 hours ago, CharonY said:

That would make a lot of sense. Like vaccinating folks against, you know, measles. Or perhaps not. I don't even know anymore. USA turned into North Korea. A brain worm seems to be leading health agencies, and folks consider one of their children dying from a preventable disease worth it to not vaccinate folks.

I am fairly sure something is pranking us all, but I cannot figure out who.

I am fairly sure it's you... 

[LuckyR]

On 3/24/2025 at 12:47 PM, CharonY said:

Disagree, it was like this for perhaps two weeks. But there were plenty of folks who decided that it was not real, and even those dying from it claimed that the it is actually the hospitals that is killing them.

Not "plenty" by my use of the term. Over 90% of (those crazy) Americans and over 95% of Europeans didn't think that Covid was a hoax ("not real") when asked in 2023. Of course sizable minorities of folks think the virus was created in a lab, or that vaccines contained microchips or that the vaccines were secretly more dangerous than Big Pharma said they were etc. But that's wholely different from not wanting to fight and avoid the virus.

[CharonY]

A survey in the UK by KCL foud about a quarter of folks that COVID19 was a hoax, about a third think it was a conspiracy of sorts.

https://www.kcl.ac.uk/policy-institute/assets/conspiracy-belief-among-the-uk-public.pdf

Suveys in 2020 in the US showed around 15% going up 20% depending on time (Fox and Trump effect, before he got sick) but they had slightly different questions. At the low end there were 10% with 20% being not sure. I don't think there are good disaggregated data sets as most somewhat conflate various conspiracy theories. However, relevant to the claim that there was universal agreement on COVID-19, almost immediately there was a splintering of public opinion with values up to 30% mistrusting public health officials.

The effects were associated higher death rates and lower vaccination rates. In Europe vaccination rates varied significantly with some areas with over 96% (e.g., Ireland, Portugal), 80-85-ish (Germany, Austria) and to very low rates in parts of Eastern Europe (Poland, 66%, Bulgaria 35%). The USA as a whole is around 70%, for comparison.

During an active pandemic, that is plenty to pose a serious public health risk, not to mention the much more sizeable portion of folks downplaying the risk. Even if only 10% are fully denying an ongoing reality can have immediate impact on public health. Imagine the same number of folks denying that cars can injure ppl on the road.

Also, there were massive protests against vaccinations and even masking (if charitable, one could make an argument regarding lockdowns). The response was far from universal and  flummoxed public health. Early on folks did think that it would be a time where folks would pull together. And we were quite wrong. Folks clearly did not universally agree on working against the virus. And it turns out, there is a sizeable pro-virus faction.

[dimreepr]

6 hours ago, LuckyR said:

Not "plenty" by my use of the term. Over 90% of (those crazy) Americans and over 95% of Europeans didn't think that Covid was a hoax ("not real") when asked in 2023. Of course sizable minorities of folks think the virus was created in a lab, or that vaccines contained microchips or that the vaccines were secretly more dangerous than Big Pharma said they were etc. But that's wholely different from not wanting to fight and avoid the virus.

Maybe we should teach people the benefits of fighting without fighting, the animal's get it, 'mostly', well the clever one's do... 😉 

[LuckyR]

I stipulated that there was disagreement on Covid policy (vaccines, origins, government overreach, masking, lock downs etc). Yet these keep being mentioned as "evidence" of the population not desiring to address Covid. 

I saw that outlier "study" that made the rounds in the media that 25% of the UK public thought that Covid was a hoax, but there are numerous other polls that put that number in the UK as well under 5%. The 25% stat just doesn't track with my personal experience with knowing numerous individuals from various walks of life and demographics. Does one quarter of people you know believe that Covid NEVER HAPPENED, that's there's nothing to it? 

Of course as background, what is the current consensus on any topic you'd care to mention? In today's world 75/25 would be a consensus (of course 90/10 is closer to the mark, as mentioned). 

Edited Wednesday at 05:54 PM by LuckyR

[CharonY]

On 3/24/2025 at 1:41 PM, LuckyR said:

Well, while there were divisions about Covid POLICY, there was universal agreement that it was a bad thing to work against. 

That was the point I was addressing, a proportion didn't believe it happened, a more sizeable proportion didn't consider it a big thing and a quite a sizeable proportion, including geniuses like Musk and Trump have propagated to their followers that it would vanish on its own and nothing had to be done. This is in direct contradiction on your statement (assuming the statement meant that folks should work against it, not that it was a bad thing to work against it).

In a public health emergency, having more than say 30% undermine efforts meant that it would spread and kill people, which it did.  Now a lot of folks are using the narrative that it only killed old folks and that therefore we should have let it run wild. Which is both callous as well as short-sighted.

Note that RFK is making the same argument now for avian influenza.

If that is what you consider to be an united response, the aliens would really just to need to pay Meta to take over the world.

[dimreepr]

18 hours ago, LuckyR said:

I stipulated that there was disagreement on Covid policy (vaccines, origins, government overreach, masking, lock downs etc). Yet these keep being mentioned as "evidence" of the population not desiring to address Covid. 

I saw that outlier "study" that made the rounds in the media that 25% of the UK public thought that Covid was a hoax, but there are numerous other polls that put that number in the UK as well under 5%. The 25% stat just doesn't track with my personal experience with knowing numerous individuals from various walks of life and demographics. Does one quarter of people you know believe that Covid NEVER HAPPENED, that's there's nothing to it? 

Of course as background, what is the current consensus on any topic you'd care to mention? In today's world 75/25 would be a consensus (of course 90/10 is closer to the mark, as mentioned). 

The level of disagreeing rather depends on the evidence, than it does on the media, IOW if you got it (COVID-19) you get it, the only true consensus comes from the knowledgeable; everything else is just guesswork directed by magician's.

[LuckyR]

On 3/26/2025 at 1:20 PM, CharonY said:

If that is what you consider to be an united response, the aliens would really just to need to pay Meta to take over the world.

Well my original comment was about an extra terrestrial invasion, not Covid. Personally I don't see those two as being particularly analogous as pertains to the human response. Especially since one is a "version" of the annual flu (which the majority of humans ignore) and the other would be an unprecedented event of global apocalyptic proportions. 

[CharonY]

1 hour ago, LuckyR said:

Especially since one is a "version" of the annual flu (which the majority of humans ignore) and the other would be an unprecedented event of global apocalyptic proportions. 

If you are referring to COVID-19, it is a) unrelated to influenza, b) caused over 7 million confirmed deaths (excess death calculations show an even worse picture), which puts it somewhere among the top 10 of pandemics. The impact of it was also clearly global, and the best response would have been a united one. Instead folks fought over PPE and vaccines (and then against vaccines). Also at the beginning, there was no telling how much worse it could have been. And yet, years later we keep seeing folks stating how unimportant it was. This, of course are those who didn't lose anyone and/or are delusional.

[studiot]

On 3/26/2025 at 7:47 AM, CharonY said:

A survey in the UK by KCL foud about a quarter of folks that COVID19 was a hoax, about a third think it was a conspiracy of sorts.

https://www.kcl.ac.uk/policy-institute/assets/conspiracy-belief-among-the-uk-public.pdf

I looked through that reference and find myself ashamed that such a supposedly august organisation should produce such a shoddy piece of work.

I'm sorry but you definitely cannot correctly draw the conclusion you have from that so called survey.

[iNow]

9 hours ago, CharonY said:

caused over 7 million confirmed deaths (excess death calculations show an even worse picture), which puts it somewhere among the top 10 of pandemics

I recall seeing numbers around 16M deaths 

[CharonY]

1 hour ago, iNow said:

I recall seeing numbers around 16M deaths 

The number of seven was based on directly attributable deaths and was considered the minimum. There other estimates based on certain models as well as excess death calculations. The high end is around 35M, IIRC, but would likely include cases that were simply caused by an overtaxed health system.