Pro’s and Con’s of Elon Musk

[TheVat]

My recent tactic with the Musk manchild is to minimize my time reading or chatting about him or speculating on his cognitive abilities (reading only on a "need to know" basis).  I hear the critiques of late stage capitalism, though.  Have to wonder at what point will the income gap between the 99% and the 1% trigger social upheaval and revolution - or are they now only to be found in history, now that the Digital Age provides such attention span shortening tools to pacify the masses?

  

 

[CharonY]

11 minutes ago, TheVat said:

My recent tactic with the Musk manchild is to minimize my time reading or chatting about him or speculating on his cognitive abilities (reading only on a "need to know" basis).  I hear the critiques of late stage capitalism, though.  Have to wonder at what point will the income gap between the 99% and the 1% trigger social upheaval and revolution - or are they now only to be found in history, now that the Digital Age provides such attention span shortening tools to pacify the masses?

  

 

Attention is part of it I think, and consumerism another. Opiate for the masses, so to speak.

[Phi for All]

1 hour ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

At any rate these two seem more like idiot savants than "pure" genius.

And this is where Trurl's argument about genius really falls down. Both these billionaires have lost tons of money through dumb decisions, yet they retain their "genius" status with many just because they're still billionaires. The fact that they could be MUCH richer if they just stopped destroying themselves on social media escapes many people. Both have the bad habit of doubling down on bad decisions.

Musk has already lost more money than any other billionaire this year, due to TFG's tariffs. Since they're still together, FElon must be looking at a different bonus, probably feeding his xA all the juicy .gov data he's been Hoovering up. As someone mentioned earlier, both are really good at using their wealth to con people.

[swansont]

4 hours ago, Phi for All said:

Since they're still together, FElon must be looking at a different bonus, probably feeding his xA all the juicy .gov data he's been Hoovering up

Don’t forget the tax cuts

[iNow]

And access to competitor data 

[dedo]

5 hours ago, TheVat said:

  I hear the critiques of late stage capitalism, though.  Have to wonder at what point will the income gap between the 99% and the 1% trigger social upheaval and revolution - or are they now only to be found in history, now that the Digital Age provides such attention span shortening tools to pacify the masses?

This is maybe his most important negative, that he is destabilizing to society.  In the last DT admin.  seasoned veterans acted as guardrails to keep DT from making the worst possible decisions.  Now those guardrails are mostly gone.  I have not seen EM show any signs of being a guardrail but eggs on DT & Maga toward their worst instincts.  Guardrails and feedback is a critical component of low error systems that this admin. now lacks.  So the error potential is off the charts.

If there is a positive, it could be in rooting out claimed waste but without independent verification of waste by a reputable auditor, I cannot accept anything EM says & must consider that DODGE is more a cover for the implementation of authoritarian rule than anything else.

[CharonY]

Also scrapping oversight (from the NYT). Some of which has already happened.

7 minutes ago, dedo said:

 

If there is a positive, it could be in rooting out claimed waste but without independent verification of waste by a reputable auditor, I cannot accept anything EM says & must consider that DODGE is more a cover for the implementation of authoritarian rule than anything else.

Especially as they have repeatedly shown to just blatantly lie https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/19/politics/doge-canceled-contracts-8-billion-invs/index.html.

If they had any good intentions, honesty would be just the barest minimum. And they cannot even pass that threshold.

Also one important thing to understand, DOGE was set up as a pure advisory committee, which has certain requirements and limitations. A proper community with operational functions would be under more stringent oversight.

Quote

In particular the Act restricts the formation of such committees to only those which are deemed essential, limits their powers to provision of advice to officers and agencies in the executive branch of the Federal Government, and limits the length of term during which any such committee may operate. Further, FACA was an attempt by Congress to curtail the rampant "locker-room discussion" that had become prevalent in administrative decisions. These "locker-room discussion" are masked under titles like "task force", "subcommittee", and "working group" meetings, which are less than full FACA meetings and so they do not have to be open to the public. FACA declared that all administrative procedures and hearings were to be public knowledge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Advisory_Committee_Act

As we can see that in practice DOGE, pretty much doesn't act like an advisory committee by asserting a range of powers, including firing folks.

[toucana]

6 hours ago, TheVat said:

My recent tactic with the Musk manchild is to minimize my time reading or chatting about him or speculating on his cognitive abilities (reading only on a "need to know" basis).  I hear the critiques of late stage capitalism, though.  Have to wonder at what point will the income gap between the 99% and the 1% trigger social upheaval and revolution - or are they now only to be found in history, now that the Digital Age provides such attention span shortening tools to pacify the masses?

In 1906, an American writer and investigative journalist called Alfred Henry Lewis (1855-1914) said in an article printed in the March edition of the Cosmopolitan Magazine - “There are only nine meals between mankind and anarchy”

https://barrypopik.com/blog/every_nation_is_about_nine_meals_away_from_a_revolution

This mirrored a sentiment which originally appeared in an article printed in the Denver (CO) Post  17 October 1896 - “Further Facts in the Case of Mark Hanna,” pg. 6, cols. 6-7

Quote

"Those of us who are well fed, well garmented and well ordered, ought not to forget that necessity makes frequently the root of crime. It is well for us to recollect that even in our own law-abiding, not to say virtuous cases, the only barrier between us and anarchy is the last nine meals we’ve had. It may be taken as axiomatic that a starving man is never a good citizen."

 

[dedo]

2 hours ago, CharonY said:

Especially as they have repeatedly shown to just blatantly lie https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/19/politics/doge-canceled-contracts-8-billion-invs/index.html.

If they had any good intentions, honesty would be just the barest minimum. And they cannot even pass that threshold.

One more alarm bell.  The diagnosis I think fits best to end stage violent autocrats is the one a psychologist suggested for Hitler, or DLD (dangerous leader disorder) noted for suppression of dissent, grandiosity, & violence.  However, this only applies to autocrats in charge & does not describe markers for people with the same disorder, but not yet in total control.

I think the key markers for the those on the way up may be:  Support for moral abominations, directly or indirectly.    Accusing others of what the afflicted does.   Lying.   

Indirect support for Russian genocide, relentless undermining of Ukraine aid, endless accusations from DOGE without independent auditor verification, false statements as you noted, is not good.

[Trurl]

Well he may or may not be a genius. Genius is has to be shown. Like or dislike him he is brilliant. I know some of you have said it is the people who work below him. But organizing these businesses is some accomplishment. We may not know what his endgame is but good or bad he is going after his goals.

We don’t like it, but we have to admit it is a brilliant way to screw us.

 I’m not familiar with Elon being a nazi. The U.S. did have true nazis in the space program. They knew rocket science. I don’t know the complete history. So I don’t know about the legal process for their work. After WWII the Soviet Union also competed for German scientists.

I think Elon is an asset to the United States. Remember if him and Trump fail we have a new administration in 4 years. The democrats act like there is nothing they can do. Bring a lawsuit. But democrats are just a vicious as republicans. I think they can handle Elon.

[StringJunky]

2 minutes ago, Trurl said:

Well he may or may not be a genius. Genius is has to be shown. Like or dislike him he is brilliant. I know some of you have said it is the people who work below him. But organizing these businesses is some accomplishment. We may not know what his endgame is but good or bad he is going after his goals.

We don’t like it, but we have to admit it is a brilliant way to screw us.

 I’m not familiar with Elon being a nazi. The U.S. did have true nazis in the space program. They knew rocket science. I don’t know the complete history. So I don’t know about the legal process for their work. After WWII the Soviet Union also competed for German scientists.

I think Elon is an asset to the United States. Remember if him and Trump fail we have a new administration in 4 years. The democrats act like there is nothing they can do. Bring a lawsuit. But democrats are just a vicious as republicans. I think they can handle Elon.

Correlation is not causation. He's more likely where he is because so many are thick.

[J.C.MacSwell]

Still claiming these as "just waves", Musk recently and Bannon (again) now.

  

 

There does seem to me some resistance coming from the right, even the far right (Bardella of France cancelling his CPAC speech due to Bannon's gesture)in this case.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2glydm3gmo

"Bannon denied the Nazi comparison and called the gesture a "wave", saying it was the "exact same wave" he did on stage at a speech seven years ago in France to Bardella's party."

Kind of begs the question: Why are you using an "exact same wave" and remembering using it 7 years ago? 

And why did you design it, exactly, to bring the Nazi salute to mind?

Edited 7 hours ago by J.C.MacSwell

[dimreepr]

18 hours ago, TheVat said:

My recent tactic with the Musk manchild is to minimize my time reading or chatting about him or speculating on his cognitive abilities (reading only on a "need to know" basis).  I hear the critiques of late stage capitalism, though.  Have to wonder at what point will the income gap between the 99% and the 1% trigger social upheaval and revolution - or are they now only to be found in history, now that the Digital Age provides such attention span shortening tools to pacify the masses?

  

 

When enough people aren't comfortable enough with what they need...

[TheVat]

11 hours ago, dedo said:

The diagnosis I think fits best to end stage violent autocrats is the one a psychologist suggested for Hitler, or DLD (dangerous leader disorder) noted for suppression of dissent, grandiosity, & violence.  However, this only applies to autocrats in charge & does not describe markers for people with the same disorder, but not yet in total control.

Not clear why a new kind of disorder needs to be hypothesized here, when good old NPD and sociopathy seem to cover many such behaviors pretty well.  For that matter, people can believe in toxic philosophies without requiring any pathology to account for it - put them in a place where they can rally people to a cause and stage a coup, and suppression of dissent and grandiosity will be natural options for them.  Power can corrupt without any pathology required.

[CharonY]

3 hours ago, TheVat said:

Not clear why a new kind of disorder needs to be hypothesized here, when good old NPD and sociopathy seem to cover many such behaviors pretty well.  For that matter, people can believe in toxic philosophies without requiring any pathology to account for it - put them in a place where they can rally people to a cause and stage a coup, and suppression of dissent and grandiosity will be natural options for them.  Power can corrupt without any pathology required.

Exactly. I think that calling it a pathology is severely misleading. It gives a false sense of security that only folks with this condition will do horrible things. Rather, it is something that most of us are capable of doing when in similar positions of unchecked power. Conversely, this means rather than focusing on individuals, it is more important to create a system that is resilient against corruption.

5 hours ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

Kind of begs the question: Why are you using an "exact same wave" and remembering using it 7 years ago? 

And why did you design it, exactly, to bring the Nazi salute to mind?

And I think anyone with a shred of honesty knows the answer to that question.

 

13 hours ago, Trurl said:

Well he may or may not be a genius. Genius is has to be shown. Like or dislike him he is brilliant

As others have mentioned, it depends on how one defines genius or brilliance. He is good in getting money, suggesting some level of people's skill. However, when we talk about intellect, at least in public there is little evidence of that. The main evidence is that he has tons of money and that is being praised by folks who, incidentally are dependent on him. While he might not be a total moron, there is overall  little evidence that I have seen that suggests any sort of genius level of intellect.

Incidentally there is an upcoming biography scrutinizing his intellect:

https://www.thewrap.com/elon-musk-biographer-says-no-evidence-billionaire-has-intellectual-achievements/

[MigL]

This 'genius', the head of DOGE, responsible for finding and eliminating Government waste, decided it was financially prudent to put a Tesla roadster into orbit.

The idiocy and ego of the 'first buddy' is only matched by the American President.
Oh, and the House/Senate Republican ass-kissers, voters who voted Republican and Democrats who didn't bother to vote; Did I miss anyone ? 

( Wow ! That's a lot of idiots )

[Sensei]

10 minutes ago, MigL said:

 

This 'genius', the head of DOGE, responsible for finding and eliminating Government waste, decided it was financially prudent to put a Tesla roadster into orbit.

The idiocy and ego of the 'first buddy' is only matched by the American President.
Oh, and the House/Senate Republican ass-kissers, voters who voted Republican and Democrats who didn't bother to vote; Did I miss anyone ? 

( Wow ! That's a lot of idiots )

He gave the children names:

X Æ A-Xii (originally X Æ A-12)

Exa Dark Sideræl Musk (a.k.a. Y)

Techno Mechanicus (a.k.a. Tau)

 

[CharonY]

1 hour ago, Sensei said:

He gave the children names:

X Æ A-Xii (originally X Æ A-12)

Exa Dark Sideræl Musk (a.k.a. Y)

Techno Mechanicus (a.k.a. Tau)

 

Yeah, no wonder that he is against pronouns. He likely just doesn't understand the concept of language.