Pro’s and Con’s of Elon Musk

[CharonY]

1 hour ago, Trurl said:

 

Well you guys are either under estimate him or you don’t like the idea of someone who fits the profile of the perfect and successful scientist act like a jerk and wreck the political structures of the world.

That is what troubles me. You want Einstein’s genius with a great world view and personality. Instead you get Elon.

There is still no evidence of scientific acumen. Also, he  is not working as a scientist. You got jerk and wrecking things right, though.

In other words you merely use the shaky moniker of genius to justify his bad sides, including being a Nazi.

 

[dedo]

3 hours ago, swansont said:

I missed where anyone has proposed curing him of any afflictions/deficiencies. Seeing as this is posted in politics, the “something” we do about it are political solutions, not medical ones.

Agreed.  I don't think setting up some kind of clinic for autocrats will gain traction.  However, I thought I mentioned that if we understand more how the process works, markers for dangerous people, then they can be identified before they cause massive harm similar to the way addicts are spotted & removed.  Personally would guess that wanting other countries' land is a marker.

 

1 hour ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

Surely, though, you didn't look at Musk wielding the chainsaw without thinking a good lobotomy session was in order.

Reminded me of a character in the show, "Dexter".  I posted on EM's timeline that it was appropriate he chose that as something to identify with because of the show.

Maybe he will read it and reform his life never picking up a chainsaw again.

[Trurl]

No, I am saying that he could be a brilliant scientist working to improve the world, but every time he is on the web or tv he represents himself as an idiot.

This is why I can’t form an opinion. You know fake news. As I said before if he is doing wrong why hasn’t anyone tried to stop him. Democrats say he doesn’t have the power to fire federal workers and funds congress approved. Then act by righting a new law that isn’t passed. They are senators. I believe they could stop Elon if they wanted.

That is what disappoints me. They say things like this goes against rights and we go and do it anyhow. They claim Trump’s policies will reck us, but again we do it anyhow. I think a lot of politicians’ debate and opinions are just for show.

[Seten]

 

[Phi for All]

1 hour ago, Trurl said:

No, I am saying that he could be a brilliant scientist working to improve the world, but every time he is on the web or tv he represents himself as an idiot.

I thought you're a math guy. If he always represents himself as an idiot, maybe he's an idiot. A very aggressive, very rich, very dangerous idiot.

[CharonY]

1 hour ago, Trurl said:

No, I am saying that he could be a brilliant scientist working to improve the world, but every time he is on the web or tv he represents himself as an idiot.

 

Occam's razor, if there is no evidence of genius, why assume it?

1 hour ago, Trurl said:

As I said before if he is doing wrong why hasn’t anyone tried to stop him. Democrats say he doesn’t have the power to fire federal workers and funds congress approved. Then act by righting a new law that isn’t passed. They are senators. I believe they could stop Elon if they wanted.

There are currently dozens of lawsuits exactly trying to stop it. Going through courts is a slow process. A big issue is that he is being used as a wrecking ball by the GOP and a disposable at that. If things go wrong (which they likely will, given the lack of competence), they can always say that he was just an outside advisor and try to wash the stench off him. If for some reasons his actions prove to be liked by the public, they can wear the success, too.

[swansont]

2 hours ago, dedo said:

Agreed.  I don't think setting up some kind of clinic for autocrats will gain traction.  However, I thought I mentioned that if we understand more how the process works, markers for dangerous people, then they can be identified before they cause massive harm similar to the way addicts are spotted & removed.  Personally would guess that wanting other countries' land is a marker.

We’ve known who Trump is and still elected him president. This is related to the “information gap” error - the assumption that lack of knowledge is the problem, and can be fixed by filling in the gap. 

3 hours ago, Trurl said:

Well you guys are either under estimate him or you don’t like the idea of someone who fits the profile of the perfect and successful scientist act like a jerk and wreck the political structures of the world.

Or perhaps you’re so invested in him being a genius that you can’t accept any evidence to the contrary.

What scientific papers has he authored? I can’t find any. So how do you conclude that he’s a successful scientist? Because a company he owns, and that employs ~10,000 people (and the technical people are likely engineers and technicians rather than scientists) has done some things? That speaks to the competence of the employees, not him. You’re giving him credit for other peoples’ work

[J.C.MacSwell]

Musk's IQ has been estimated to be around 155 (for whatever that's worth). I have no doubt that at one time it was above 140, arguably the start of genius level (for what that's worth)

My issues with him would be more with both his intellectual and moral integrity.

https://brainmanager.io/blog/cognitive/what-is-elon-musk-iq

[swansont]

27 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

Musk's IQ has been estimated to be around 155 (for whatever that's worth).

How was it estimated? The article only states the number, not the method or evidence.

[Seten]

Well apparently, he is smart enough to be recognized on the Big Bang Theory with geniuses like Wolowitz

 

[CharonY]

1 hour ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

Musk's IQ has been estimated to be around 155 (for whatever that's worth). I have no doubt that at one time it was above 140, arguably the start of genius level (for what that's worth)

My issues with him would be more with both his intellectual and moral integrity.

https://brainmanager.io/blog/cognitive/what-is-elon-musk-iq

From one of the links regarding his upcoming biography:

Quote

“As an Elon Musk biographer, I would peg his IQ as between 100 and 110,” Abramson tweeted Thursday afternoon. “There’s zero evidence in his biography of anything higher. And I want to repeat that now, lest you think it a typo. There’s zero evidence, from his life history, of Musk having anything higher than a 110 IQ.”

It seems that there is really no evidence of an actual test.

[dedo]

3 hours ago, swansont said:

We’ve known who Trump is and still elected him president. This is related to the “information gap” error - the assumption that lack of knowledge is the problem, and can be fixed by filling in the gap. 

If you believe that consider having some discussions with people on X.  For many, evidence & information are irrelevant, & they only can keep regurgitating what they heard from their favorite pundit.  

One person was trying argue with me about wresting submissions as part of a discussion regarding a citizen death by police.  That was after I tried to explain the difference between a choke & asphyxia as a cause of death.  It was obvious she had never seen a wrestling event, but that did not matter.  There was no way I could tell anything about her intelligence which I don't think was an issue, just her indoctrination.

Another guy on Reddit, a psychiatrist actually, tried to give an authoritative answer for what was wrong, or actually what was not wrong, with Hitler's psychopathology.  His answer contradicted pretty much everything I read.  Of course he did not explain his reasoning & left when I listed a few sources.  It was obvious he had not studied the issue at all, but was obsessed with being some kind of authority figure.  I assumed he was intelligent enough to advance in his profession.  In this case it was not indoctrination, or lack of intelligence, just an obsession with being an "authority".  

[J.C.MacSwell]

24 minutes ago, CharonY said:

From one of the links regarding his upcoming biography:

It seems that there is really no evidence of an actual test.

Okay. No actual test.

You quoted this though as well though:

"There’s zero evidence, from his life history, of Musk having anything higher than a 110 IQ.”

You quoted this as a biographer's statement. Fair enough. But do you believe that? 

Is there nothing in his life history that suggests above average intelligence?

[Seten]

I feel as though this discussion has been more about Elon's politics than his business, with some parodies thrown in by me for some giggles admittedly. Essentially, this video encapsulates more about the business end of things for Elon

Neil sort of critiques on Musk's attempts to privatize space exploration, more concisely to begin it as a corporation. Sort of more of an Alien franchise than a Star Trek franchise. 

Which isn't entirely dissimilar to his autocratic views on politics

 

[dedo]

This is an issue I have with EM's "vision" for space that he seems to rationalize as a way to colonize other worlds as a "backup" to Earth, if Earth fails.  However, it seems to be more about personal attention for himself.

Personally, I think space exploration is better leveraged as a means to save Earth, not as away to escape Earth.  Other worlds, at least in this solar system, would not be pleasant places to live.  Taking control of good places to live likely means something akin to colonialism in Earth during 15th - 18th Centuries, or genocidal conquest, not an advancement for mankind.

[J.C.MacSwell]

1 hour ago, swansont said:

How was it estimated? The article only states the number, not the method or evidence.

I don't know. That's in part why I added "for whatever that's worth"

[CharonY]

Yeah, the lionization of folks was (IMO) already tasteless then. And as it turns out

19 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

You quoted this as a biographer's statement. Fair enough. But do you believe that? 

Is there nothing in his life history that suggests above average intelligence?

I have little evidence for or against- which is my broader point. Given lack of evidence, an assumption of average or a bit above average is usually a good starting point. The examples I have seen of him discussing a variety of topics (though they might be biased) do not provide any evidence to suggest otherwise.

Now talking about his broader life history, from what I read it does seem that a) his family wealth has provided him with ways to explore opportunities and b) he does have a knack to convince folks to give him money. But again, I don't see that that this necessarily requires high sophistication. For example, Trump was able to convince people to invest in him by pretending to be richer, in part by impersonating a fictional publicist to boost himself. I.e. being shameless goes a long way in grifting. What is even worse, in areas where he claims to have expertise (e.g. in programming, as that was where he initial made seed money), he really seems to flounder.

That leaves soft skills on the table, such as leadership and communications. He might be above average in both, though there is a lot of celebrity cult going on there where it is really difficult to figure out the actual achievements. Not that any of that is terribly important, was we see clear ineptness played out in plain sight.

[MSC]

On 2/20/2025 at 11:44 PM, Trurl said:

Again this proves he is a genius. He convinced everyone this saves money and prosperity. He claims it will improve the economy and lower the deficit.

But it makes perfect sense to have a genius in charge of the economy, government, and people’s lives. What could go wrong?

Being a genius, and being a loudmouth bully who abuses the best work out of others and screams they are the genius responsible for said works of others, are two different things. One is actually far more likely to lead one to great wealth, and it isn't the genius one, it's the bully one. For every innovation there is a capitalist narcissistic manipulator ready to steal credit and profit. More often than not, they actually stifle innovation by killing competition and stealing the spotlight from the true geniuses who were actually responsible, thereby stealing public support from the people who could do truly great things with it. They also completely believe their own waffle. 

The illusion of the cynical genius is just that, an illusion. 

What I will say about Musk is that he works very hard at trying to cultivate an aura of genius, but I dare you to track down any real academic or intellectual achievement of his that was actually his, that doesn't involve the manipulation of others. I guess it takes a type of genius to be that good at manipulating others, but it's a very short sighted kind that requires you to be stupid in the long-term. In ancestral terms, hoarding food in your cave and declaring yourself to be better than your fellow caveman, led to being clubbed in the night and having all your hoard taken anyway. 

Here is a pro to modern society; on average we are all much safer than our caveman ancestors. 

Con; the hoarding cavemen who think they are better than everyone else are even more insulated from the clubs. 

[Seten]

20 minutes ago, dedo said:

colonialism in Earth during 15th - 18th Centuries

I actually did a paper on how the corporate sector was heavily involved/influential in the formation of the United States during my final history course. You bet, from fur traders to ship builders. Nothing brings a people together like business. 

Edited 14 minutes ago by Seten