Rights

[KJW]

13 minutes ago, m_m said:

Freedom of expression? Ok. 

 Why do you complain about the politics of Trump? One of the topics of this forum sounds like "Trump administration is crippling science". Crippling.. very dramatic. No, he is not crippling science, he expresses his views on science. Also, he expresses his views on the politics of the US. He is free to express himself, BECAUSE people voted for him. It was their free choice, they gave him this right-to express his views. 

You don't have the right to complain.

Yes, we do have the right to complain. That is our right to free speech. Trump does have his right to free speech, but he doesn't have the right to break the law.

 

[exchemist]

24 minutes ago, m_m said:

Freedom of expression? Ok. 

 Why do you complain about the politics of Trump? One of the topics of this forum sounds like "Trump administration is crippling science". Crippling.. very dramatic. No, he is not crippling science, he expresses his views on science. Also, he expresses his views on the politics of the US. He is free to express himself, BECAUSE people voted for him. It was their free choice, they gave him this right-to express his views. 

You don't have the right to complain.

I brought this example on Olympic Opening Ceremony. Was the right if performers 'to express' themselves legal?

I don't know why you say all the time that I'm trolling, when I am not. 

You have a very fat troll here, on this forum, he depreciates every comment he responses. But you are ok with him. 

I know, I am free to withdraw myself from participating on this forum.

So, let it be.

This about Trump is pretty silly of you because he is not just “expressing his view”.He is issuing executive orders that force people to do, or to stop doing, certain things.

 

[m_m]

Just now, exchemist said:

This about Trump is pretty silly of you because he is not just “expressing his view”.He is issuing executive orders that force people to do, or to stop doing, certain things.

 

And I said before, people gave him this right, voting for him. 

*

What law does he break in this case?

 

[exchemist]

54 minutes ago, m_m said:

And I said before, people gave him this right, voting for him. 

*

What law does he break in this case?

 

Now you are changing your ground. You said he was expressing a view, when he was issuing an order. So you were presenting it as  a free speech issue, when it was nothing of the kind. 

Now, you are claiming he has a mandate from the people to issue these orders, which is an entirely different matter. 
 

On that question, in many of the orders he does not have that mandate, since he is exceeding the power of the president under the constitution. He was elected under the constitution, which designates separate and independent powers for the president, Congress and the judiciary. Some ofTrump’s orders usurp the power of Congress and others usurp the power of the courts.
 

Trump is destroying the constitution and replacing it with a dictatorship. If you know any history you will see that what is going on is a classic “soft coup”, whereby after being elected, the ruler dismantles the constitutional checks on his power and rules by diktat, reinforced by fear.

To change the constitution in accordance with the constitution, one needs a 2/3 majority of Congress. Trump is ignoring all that, just issuing orders and daring anyone to stand in his way. It’s a fascist coup. 

Edited 18 hours ago by exchemist

[m_m]

Just now, exchemist said:

expressing a view, when he was issuing an order

But this order is still his view.

Anyway, it's my mistake, yes. In the Constitution of Ukraine, for example, it is said that people are the only source of power. And people transfer this power to the president. And when something is wrong with authorities, people can complain only about their choice.

I don't know about the Constitution of the US.

My point was that citizens of America expressed their view on the president on their country, and Trump expresses his view on the politics. You can call it dictatorship, but  it is still his view on how everything should be. He expresses himself in this way. But you don't like it.

But you (not you personally) like how that performers expressed themselves. Though, they didn't have the right to "express" themselves in that way. But there's NO LAW to blame them. 

Edited 18 hours ago by m_m

[swansont]

2 hours ago, m_m said:

Freedom of expression? Ok. 

 Why do you complain about the politics of Trump? One of the topics of this forum sounds like "Trump administration is crippling science". Crippling.. very dramatic. No, he is not crippling science, he expresses his views on science. Also, he expresses his views on the politics of the US. He is free to express himself, BECAUSE people voted for him. It was their free choice, they gave him this right-to express his views. 

You don't have the right to complain.

Trump is doing more than expressing views. He (via Musk) is firing people and cutting off funding, which are tangible actions, and not mere expression.

2 hours ago, m_m said:

I brought this example on the Olympic Opening Ceremony. Was the right of performers 'to express' themselves legal?

Yes.

I’ve asked a number if times for you to show where the right not to be offended is written out in any constitution. Now you question the legality of something without citing what law they allegedly broke. Are you not capable of researching these things? 

2 hours ago, m_m said:

I don't know why you say all the time that I'm trolling, when I am not. 

What I just mentioned would be one reason. You seem to want people to answer in a certain way, and when they don’t, you ask again. It’s like you want your opinion to be an objective fact.

2 hours ago, m_m said:

You have a very fat troll here, on this forum, he depreciates every comment he responses. But you are ok with him. 

If you don’t report posts and bring them to the staff’s attention, we might not see these posts. Have you done so? Keep in mind that simple disagreement is not a rules violation.

Not all moderator action is public.

2 hours ago, m_m said:

I know, I am free to withdraw myself from participating on this forum.

So, let it be.

 

1 hour ago, m_m said:

What law does he break in this case?

Cutting off funding appropriated by congress. He doesn’t have that authority, and courts have begun to say so.

52 minutes ago, exchemist said:

You said he was expressing a view, when he was issuing an order. So you were presenting it as  a free speech issue, when it was nothing of the kind. 

There’s also the issue that “freedom of speech” is a freedom from the government punishing you for speech, but Trump represents the government. He doesn’t have this freedom when acting in an official capacity. That’s true of any person in government- you can say things as a private citizen that you are not allowed to express at work, or in representing the government 

[exchemist]

40 minutes ago, m_m said:

But this order is still his view.

Anyway, it's my mistake, yes. In the Constitution of Ukraine, for example, it is said that people are the only source of power. And people transfer this power to the president. And when something is wrong with authorities, people can complain only about their choice.

I don't know about the Constitution of the US.

My point was that citizens of America expressed their view on the president on their country, and Trump expresses his view on the politics. You can call it dictatorship, but  it is still his view on how everything should be. He expresses himself in this way. But you don't like it.

But you (not you personally) like how that performers expressed themselves. Though, they didn't have the right to "express" themselves in that way. But there's NO LAW to blame them. 

No, he is forcing his "view", on many things that did not feature in his election campaign, on the citizens, by order. 

There are laws that prevent Trump doing some of the things he has ordered to be done. But he is ignoring them. I have told you this. 

[iNow]

2 hours ago, KJW said:

Trump does have his right to free speech, but he doesn't have the right to break the law.

It’s a shame the OP has turned this into yet another thread about Trump, but this last part here is very much in question right now. 

SCOTUS has ruled POTUS has nearly unlimited authority, and while that’s contrary to historical norms it’s not necessarily untrue.

And even if they hadn’t ruled in that manner, it is the executive branch which would be needed to enforce any rulings from the Court and that enforcement too is squarely under POTUS authority. 

[dimreepr]

52 minutes ago, iNow said:

It’s a shame the OP has turned this into yet another thread about Trump, but this last part here is very much in question right now. 

The question in my mind is, when and how he intends to amend America's bible to allow him a third term?

Assuming the midterms go the way of recent history...