US assault on free speech and freedom of expression

[CharonY]

I assumed that in this forum this topic would not lead to any arguments, but some of the posts in the DEI thread lead me to believe that potentially there are different opinions on that matter.

As mentioned in the other thread, the Trump administration has been censoring topic they deem DEI, including the Enola Gay, black medal of honor recipients (now reversed https://www.military.com/history/highest-ranking-black-medal-of-honor-recipient-erased-pentagon-dei-purge.html) and used it as a pretext to censor research, via NIH freezes and so on. That alone should be chilling sign to all free speech advocates, but they extend things further beyond the governmental systems. He threatened investigations into Democratic members of congress for criticizing conservatives, had a permanent resident (Mahmoud Khali) arrest for pro-Palestinian protests on campus (they originally though he was on a student visa, which he was not).

In a broader sense the Trump administrations has threatened to cut funding for universities which do not comply to their vague DEI and antisemitism directives, started investigations and lawsuits against press and media for coverage he didn't like (some already resulting in million dollar bribes, er, settlements), targeted private law firms to scare off attorneys to take cases that challenge the administration.

In short, the administration is doing everything that they accused the "woke" left of potentially doing. I would then be interested to hear why folks might think that these might not be examples of First amendment violations and how precisely the (often weak) implementations of measures such as DEI can lead to to folks to turn to the right, whereas actual policies targeting free speech is suddenly acceptable. Or do we just simply have to accept that world has turned irredeemably into an asylum, where everyone lives in their own reality?

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-campaigned-as-a-protector-of-free-speech-but-critics-say-his-actions-threaten-it

 

[TheVat]

[clutches head, groans, arrrhhhhhgg too many interesting thread topics for me to doomscroll through....]

Will try to engage more tomorrow.  For now, will just say that fascist takeovers seem to follow a standard set of procedures and that muzzling the press and free speech is usually top of the list.  My one hope is that there is something rather oppositional and mistrustful of government in the American psyche, and this is going to ratchet up some real resistance (across party lines and cultures) in the coming months.  One enjoyable example, for me, has been reading the comments section which follows articles in the Washington Post, and becoming aware how many readers are angry at Bezos capitulation to pressure from the new regime and/or announcing their cancellation of their subscription.  

[J.C.MacSwell]

There seems to be a notable rise in "accusation in a mirror" speech, accusing others of what one is doing or planning, by the current administration. Something Putin has been adept at for years...so it must be a good idea...

Much of their "defence" of free speech is along these lines.

It seems more systematic than ad hoc, though with Trump himself it can be hard to tell, not so much whether he's lying but whether he planned it or just came up with it and blurted it out.

[MSC]

On 3/17/2025 at 2:18 PM, CharonY said:

In a broader sense the Trump administrations has threatened to cut funding for universities which do not comply to their vague DEI and antisemitism directives, started investigations and lawsuits against press and media for coverage he didn't like (some already resulting in million dollar bribes, er, settlements), targeted private law firms to scare off attorneys to take cases that challenge the administration.

In short, the administration is doing everything that they accused the "woke" left of potentially doing. I would then be interested to hear why folks might think that these might not be examples of First amendment violations and how precisely the (often weak) implementations of measures such as DEI can lead to to folks to turn to the right, whereas actual policies targeting free speech is suddenly acceptable. Or do we just simply have to accept that world has turned irredeemably into an asylum, where everyone lives in their own reality?

The theme I've noticed is less to do with which rights to value, but whom is more deserving of those rights. 

The sort of movement Trump represents is less to do with creating a just and moral society for everyone, but a comfortable and luxurious society for some people, at the cost of everyone else. Take a look at how Trump and his cronies use and abuse Judaism and have made themselves arbiters of it by determining who is and isn't a "bad jew" or a "good Jew". The whole "you're not Jewish if you vote Democrat" line is emblematic of something else; "You're not really a person if you don't support Donald Trump." And if you're not a person, why would you expect to have the sort of rights "real people" have? 

When it comes to the things we own and care about, we typically don't get defensive of them until they are under threat. To put it simply, the free speech rights of Trump supporters are not under threat because there is no risk associated with their use of it. 

I think we also have made the mistake (myself included) at times of focusing on the rich and white aspect of who Trump is out to benefit the most, when really it is himself. There are a fair amount of rich white Republican men who are still never Trumpers and there rights are under threat too. Every Trump supporter who isn't a white man, is just seen as a good servant who knows their place. Any white man against him is seen as a traitor to their race. 

Ultimately we are at a wall when it comes to understanding the many different kinds of people who support Trump and why, the data I lack to do deeper dives resides in their devices and news sources. For some, it will be that they are legit neo-nazis and this is all about eugenics, for others it's normally warm and kind people who are being fed lies about what Trump is doing and what the Democrats are doing. There are different levels to this and who Trump is to those people, I can't even really fathom it. All I know is that the past decade of dealing with Trump supporters has told me they are far better at mental gymnastics than I am.

1 minute ago, MSC said:

For some, it will be that they are legit neo-nazis and this is all about eugenics, for others it's normally warm and kind people who are being fed lies

Note; not to say there are only two kinds of people that support Trump, everything in between those two also exists. I really want to know why some non-whites and women support him, for them it's even harder for me to understand. 

[dimreepr]

1 hour ago, MSC said:

The theme I've noticed is less to do with which rights to value, but whom is more deserving of those rights. 

That's always the theme, in every sort of election ever held.

Trump's assault on free speech is far more nuanced, he's getting the proles to tell him he's right...

[TheVat]

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2025/03/columbia-academic-freedom/682088/?gift=43H6YzEv1tnFbOn4MRsWYvzeCXmbxeZaOYTzbcGazb0&utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share

 

(free link)

Expresses better than I can how profound is the threat to America's universities.  (am traveling this week, so screen time is ltd.)

[CharonY]

Just now, TheVat said:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2025/03/columbia-academic-freedom/682088/?gift=43H6YzEv1tnFbOn4MRsWYvzeCXmbxeZaOYTzbcGazb0&utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share

 

(free link)

Expresses better than I can how profound is the threat to America's universities.  (am traveling this week, so screen time is ltd.)

I think the article is missing other developments, which makes it even worse. Universities in North America are increasingly run like corporations, where students are considered clients and professors service providers. Freedom of teaching and research is kinda hanging on, but a lot of power has shifted to administrations. This, however, puts in question how independent universities can be to external pressures. This is especially problematic considering the funding situation.

IMO, the situation has been worsening over the years and is now basically accelerating.

[TheVat]

Prof at Yale who studies fascism is leaving the US to work in Canada.  

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/26/yale-professor-fascism-canada

I imagine we'll be seeing more of this kind of brain drain, in the wake of capitulations to the TP admin like that at Columbia.  

 

[CharonY]

They also have started to arrest grad students.

https://apnews.com/article/tufts-student-detained-massachusetts-immigration-6c3978da98a8d0f39ab311e092ffd892?utm_source=copy&utm_medium=share

[iNow]

2 hours ago, CharonY said:

started to arrest grad students.

The phrases “internment” and “disappear someone” come to mind

[exchemist]

There is also an attack on law firms who have represented causes or individuals that have displeased Trump. 

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/03/27/politics/law-firms-trump-attacks/index.html

Security clearances are to be revoked, hamstringing their ability to carry out certain kinds of work, they are to be denied access to federal buildings. Government work is to be denied even to the clients of these law firms, forcing them to change their lawyers to another firm, to avoid losing government business. 

This is transparently an attempt to intimidate the legal profession, so that nobody who mounts any sort of legal challenge to Trump can get legal representation.  

 

[dimreepr]

1 hour ago, exchemist said:

There is also an attack on law firms who have represented causes or individuals that have displeased Trump. 

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/03/27/politics/law-firms-trump-attacks/index.html

Security clearances are to be revoked, hamstringing their ability to carry out certain kinds of work, they are to be denied access to federal buildings. Government work is to be denied even to the clients of these law firms, forcing them to change their lawyers to another firm, to avoid losing government business. 

This is transparently an attempt to intimidate the legal profession, so that nobody who mounts any sort of legal challenge to Trump can get legal representation.  

 

Indeed, the pendulum of politics is approaching the zenith of the latest swing, ironically (if that's the right word) Russia is approaching it from the other direction; and yet again humanity fund's a history department, that has the power to stop a fundamentally necessary piece of infrastructure bc someone spotted something old, but is to be ignored, when something important crops up...

Either way Marx is right about the process...

[Peterkin]

On 3/17/2025 at 2:18 PM, CharonY said:

Or do we just simply have to accept that world has turned irredeemably into an asylum, where everyone lives in their own reality?

Yes. Trump isn't the only Leader tearing his country to pieces, but he's sure setting a brisk pace.

Edited 16 hours ago by Peterkin

[dimreepr]

28 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

Yes. Trump isn't the only Leader tearing his country to pieces, but he's sure setting a brisk pace.

Of course, he's gotta get it done before the midterms... 

[Peterkin]

1 hour ago, dimreepr said:

Of course, he's gotta get it done before the midterms... 

At his rate, nobody who isn't for him will have a vote by then.

[MSC]

1 hour ago, Peterkin said:

At his rate, nobody who isn't for him will have a vote by then.

Oh he is probably pushing the public hard to protest so he can try declare martial law and postpone indefinitely elections under the guise of "protecting law and order"

[TheVat]

19 minutes ago, MSC said:

Oh he is probably pushing the public hard to protest so he can try declare martial law and postpone indefinitely elections under the guise of "protecting law and order"

 

If TP and minions are smart enough to bring that off, then are they smart enough to understand that constantly banging the drum about election integrity and reducing voter fraud will then make it seem like they are incompetent in their efforts to "fix" our voting system.  (and it could  bring down a bunch of angry oligarchs on the TP admin, given how many of them lavish 100s of millions of dollars on those elections - whatever their political agenda, those folks don't like to see their investments go for nothing - they may want the incumbent in a particular race, but that doesn't mean they will want all present officeholders frozen in place)  Also, if TP could somehow shut down the 2026 midterms, it would leave his party stuck with razor-thin majorities and the possibility of bipartisan coalitions that could torpedo Project 2025.  This latter possiblity is already rearing its head in the House.  

 

[Peterkin]

I'm not sure the oligarchs are interested in any further investment in the electoral system. They've got a crazy old man who'll take the blame if things go pear-shaped. And they're none of them bound to the USA; they have ermine-lined bunkers already prepared inside a dozen mountains around the world. Meanwhile, they get everything they want. If there is no government left when he dies or they're ready to replace him, so what?