Democracies and “Democracies” (split from Democracy and military strength)

[Sensei]

There are democracies and “democracies”. The DJT recently ordered the bombing of completely non-military locations, committing war crimes and murdering civilians who were not supposed to be targeted at all in Jemen. Just like his beloved colleague Volodya, and yet another mass murderer netanjahu.

In these pseudo-democracies of modern times every leader wants to bomb and attack other countries according to his own vision, no matter that according to their constitution he has no authority to do so. After all, he doesn't “declare war,” he just bombs something there and someone there, and they watch it on the TV and it's okay. Like here:

 

 

You have such the Volodie, a terrorist group leader, who has committed war crimes, and with him you talk on the phone, and make a deal. And if someone doesn't have the enough power, you don't talk to him, you just bomb him, entire village, entire city and entire country. It's just semantics. For them.

They say "We do not negotiate with terrorist groups".. How is one terrorist group supposed to talk to another terrorist group?

When was the last declaration of war sent before joining the hostilities?

I guess it's high time to replace these pseudo political leaders from orbit simply by using lasers from the sky.. Let them hide in their burrows in the deepest places. And flying air planes is left for the birds. If I found out the president was flying on my plane, I think I'd be late for my flight on that plane. Especially if he is a criminal.

War criminals should not go out in the open air. They should rot several kilometers underground. Where they belong. Where is their place.

 

Edited March 19 by Sensei

[toucana]

1 hour ago, Sensei said:

In these pseudo-democracies of modern times every leader wants to bomb and attack other countries according to his own vision, no matter that according to their constitution he has no authority to do so. After all, he doesn't “declare war,” he just bombs something there and someone there, and they watch it on the TV and it's okay. Like here:

 

 

The photograph you attached is a war room shot of Operation Neptune Spear in progress on 2 May 2011. This was a surgical strike authrorised by President Obama, in which Seal Team Six shot and killed Osama Bin Laden at his hideout in Abbottabad Pakistan. It has nothing to do with the recent strikes ordered by president Trump on Houthi rebels in Yemen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Osama_bin_Laden

Osama Bin Laden was the leader of the Al Qaeda terror group which planned and executed the 9/11 attacks on the WTC in New York, and the Pentagon in Washington DC on 11 September 2001. These attacks which killed 2,977 people, were the deadliest terrorist assault in history. The casualties that day significantly exceeded the total of  2,403 Americans killed in the surprise attack on Pearl Harbour on December 7  1941 - an event which led to the USA entering WW2, and the dropping of atomic bombs on Japan to end the war in 1945.

 

Edited March 19 by toucana
corrected 'WTC'

[Sensei]

2 minutes ago, toucana said:

The photograph you attached is a war room shot of Operation Neptune Spear in progress on 2 May 2011. This was a surgical strike authrorised by President Obama, in which Seal Team Six shot and killed Osama Bin Laden at his hideout in Abbottabad Pakistan. It has nothing to do with the recent strikes ordered by president Trump on Houthi rebels in Yemen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Osama_bin_Laden

Osama Bin Laden was the leader of the Al Qaeda terror group which planned and executed the 9/11 attacks on the WTS in New York, and the Pentagon in Washington DC on 11 September 2001. These attacks which killed 2,977 people, were the deadliest terrorist assault in history. The casualties that day significantly exceeded the total of  2,403 Americans killed in the surprise attack on Pearl Harbour on December 7  1941 - an event which led to the USA entering WW2, and the dropping of atomic bombs on Japan to end the war in 1945.

 

..did you think through your statement deeply before posting.. ?

 

[toucana]

11 minutes ago, Sensei said:

..did you think through your statement deeply before posting.. ?

 

Yes I did. I also took the trouble to research my post and provide some factual sources and date checking, which is a lot more than you did.

Do you really believe that the US government was not entitled to carry out a surgical strike to kill Osama Bin Laden in the wake of the largest terrorist assault in history -  one which killed more Americans than Pearl Harbour did ? - And if not why not  ? Where is your argument ? Why did you try to pass off a photo from 2011 as if were relevant to an issue in 2025 ?

I don’t like deceit and innuendo. Say what you mean, and mean what you say.

[exchemist]

On 3/19/2025 at 9:38 PM, Sensei said:

There are democracies and “democracies”. The DJT recently ordered the bombing of completely non-military locations, committing war crimes and murdering civilians who were not supposed to be targeted at all in Jemen. Just like his beloved colleague Volodya, and yet another mass murderer netanjahu.

In these pseudo-democracies of modern times every leader wants to bomb and attack other countries according to his own vision, no matter that according to their constitution he has no authority to do so. After all, he doesn't “declare war,” he just bombs something there and someone there, and they watch it on the TV and it's okay. Like here:

 

 

You have such the Volodie, a terrorist group leader, who has committed war crimes, and with him you talk on the phone, and make a deal. And if someone doesn't have the enough power, you don't talk to him, you just bomb him, entire village, entire city and entire country. It's just semantics. For them.

They say "We do not negotiate with terrorist groups".. How is one terrorist group supposed to talk to another terrorist group?

When was the last declaration of war sent before joining the hostilities?

I guess it's high time to replace these pseudo political leaders from orbit simply by using lasers from the sky.. Let them hide in their burrows in the deepest places. And flying air planes is left for the birds. If I found out the president was flying on my plane, I think I'd be late for my flight on that plane. Especially if he is a criminal.

War criminals should not go out in the open air. They should rot several kilometers underground. Where they belong. Where is their place.

 

What an extraordinary example of lazy false equivalence. 
 

The principle of proportionality is well-established in both domestic and international law and was quite clearly adhered to in the case illustrated in your picture.

[Sensei]

Your blindness prevents you from taking a reasonable and objective view of the matter.
Take off the rose-colored glasses that prevent you from looking objectively at what is going on.

 

Where in the constitution, criminal law, and international law do you have there about ordering assassination in other countries, like Pakistan, which at that point in time was even friendly country?
In international law is a clear violation of the country's sovereignty.

 

Democracies if they are real democracies must/should obey the law, and not openly, and these days in front of the whole world, violate it. Or just don't say you're a democracy, because that would be a lie, as you don't obey the laws you made for yourself at all.

The judicial power in a democratic country should be independent. A judicial authority that is dependent on politicians is a farce. And here we have an example that the judicial authority doesn't give a damn at all, because they didn't bring the suspect to trial, but simply murdered him.

 

If e.g. Canada or Mexico sent a squadron of helicopters deep into the U.S. with assassins to murder someone, and even record it with cameras, it would make a unimaginable international scandal. And when the U.S. or another Western country does exactly that, you treat it as an insignificant small thing. You have double standards. For “us” and for “them”.

If you bomb people or launch a rocket attack, etc. etc. then people die, and their relatives, descendants want revenge. The U.S., Russia, Israel etc. create a new terrorists by themselves. Twenty years from now, the descendants of those you murdered today with bombs will grow up and do some attack that will only be revenge for what you did today. You will then say: "US is under attack, we will find and kill those who did it, ordered it, paid for it", and even those who stood next to them without knowing anything about the case.

It is a line of retaliation for retaliation for retaliation. Hit for hit for hit for previous hit. No one remembers what came first.

(Maybe some Englishman in the 18th-19th centuries had a brick fall from the roof when he was on a trip in the Arab countries and considered it an attack on the British, a subject of the Queen and in general an insult to the majesty and power of the British Empire?)

 

Don't tell me the WTC was a terrorist attack. It was revenge. Such terrorist attacks are committed by the US almost every day all over the world.

How many people were murdered in Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria? Thousands of times more than in the WTC.

As you make your bed, so shall you sleep.

 

Why put a random guy in jail who killed someone on the street, when there are murderers in top state positions who have killed hundreds of thousands of people? And they do it with white gloves. They order the murder and watch it on the TV screen, read the report or forget about it the next day.

 

[exchemist]

56 minutes ago, Sensei said:

Your blindness prevents you from taking a reasonable and objective view of the matter.
Take off the rose-colored glasses that prevent you from looking objectively at what is going on.

 

Where in the constitution, criminal law, and international law do you have there about ordering assassination in other countries, like Pakistan, which at that point in time was even friendly country?
In international law is a clear violation of the country's sovereignty.

 

Democracies if they are real democracies must/should obey the law, and not openly, and these days in front of the whole world, violate it. Or just don't say you're a democracy, because that would be a lie, as you don't obey the laws you made for yourself at all.

The judicial power in a democratic country should be independent. A judicial authority that is dependent on politicians is a farce. And here we have an example that the judicial authority doesn't give a damn at all, because they didn't bring the suspect to trial, but simply murdered him.

 

If e.g. Canada or Mexico sent a squadron of helicopters deep into the U.S. with assassins to murder someone, and even record it with cameras, it would make a unimaginable international scandal. And when the U.S. or another Western country does exactly that, you treat it as an insignificant small thing. You have double standards. For “us” and for “them”.

If you bomb people or launch a rocket attack, etc. etc. then people die, and their relatives, descendants want revenge. The U.S., Russia, Israel etc. create a new terrorists by themselves. Twenty years from now, the descendants of those you murdered today with bombs will grow up and do some attack that will only be revenge for what you did today. You will then say: "US is under attack, we will find and kill those who did it, ordered it, paid for it", and even those who stood next to them without knowing anything about the case.

It is a line of retaliation for retaliation for retaliation. Hit for hit for hit for previous hit. No one remembers what came first.

(Maybe some Englishman in the 18th-19th centuries had a brick fall from the roof when he was on a trip in the Arab countries and considered it an attack on the British, a subject of the Queen and in general an insult to the majesty and power of the British Empire?)

 

Don't tell me the WTC was a terrorist attack. It was revenge. Such terrorist attacks are committed by the US almost every day all over the world.

How many people were murdered in Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria? Thousands of times more than in the WTC.

As you make your bed, so shall you sleep.

 

Why put a random guy in jail who killed someone on the street, when there are murderers in top state positions who have killed hundreds of thousands of people? And they do it with white gloves. They order the murder and watch it on the TV screen, read the report or forget about it the next day.

 

P R O P O R T I O N A L I T Y

[zapatos]

1 hour ago, Sensei said:

Where in the constitution, criminal law, and international law do you have there about ordering assassination in other countries, like Pakistan, which at that point in time was even friendly country?

Quote

More specifically, a careful legal analysis demonstrates that a non-international armed conflict exists between the United States and Al Qaeda. The evidence overwhelmingly establishes that Al Qaeda is an organised armed group under international humanitarian law. Osama bin Laden most accurately could be thought of as a strategic level commander of Al Qaeda. He has been actively involved in planning and co-ordinating armed attacks against military and civilian targets for years, including the most recent planning of attacks commemorating the tenth anniversary of September 11. As such, he is clearly targetable under international law. Finally, the United States was well within its rights under international law to launch an attack into Pakistan against bin Laden.

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/israel-law-review/article/abs/operation-neptunes-spear-the-lawful-killing-of-osama-bin-laden/EB8023A47D4B6E0D8DEC2E9AAEA316C8

Quote

Congress passed, and the President signed, an authorization for the use of military force, or AUMF, authorizing the President to take action to protect the United States against those who had attacked us. Even though it was only days later, we already knew that the attacks were the work of al-Qa’ida, a terrorist organization operating out of Afghanistan, led by a man named Usama bin Laden.

The authorization that was enacted into law – which came to be known as the 2001 AUMF – was not a traditional declaration of war against a state. We had been attacked, instead, by a terrorist organization. Yes, the Taliban had allowed bin Laden and his organization to operate with impunity within Afghanistan. But it was not Afghanistan that had launched the attack. It was bin Laden and his terrorist organization.

The authorization for the use of military force that Congress passed aimed to give the President all the statutory authority he needed to fight back against bin Laden, his organization, and those who supported him, including the Taliban.

https://www.defense.gov/News/Speeches/Speech/Article/606662/the-legal-framework-for-the-united-states-use-of-military-force-since-911/

Google is your friend.

 

 

1 hour ago, Sensei said:

Democracies if they are real democracies...

And being the true Scotsman you are I suppose you can tell us which democracies are "real".

Edited Saturday at 05:35 PM by zapatos

[Sensei]

This thread is about complying with national and international law. The technological superiority of the US causes the leaders to give a damn about obeying any laws. Sky is the limit.

Other countries can at most shout about the fact that the U.S. has committed some crime. No consequences are drawn, both for people personally and institutions that participated in breaking the law. That's why there are terrorist attacks, because no one expects a military confrontation from any other country whose rights have been violated as a result of the US government's actions.

Dictators, authoritarian leaders, see this and draw conclusions.

Under the current POTUS basically everyone in the world already hates Americans. And it's only been two months.

  

18 minutes ago, zapatos said:

Google is your friend.

A lie. It's a tool of surveillance..

And besides, there is nothing to google here. You can see with the naked eye what crimes were committed. It was recorded on film. Photos taken.

Edited Saturday at 05:57 PM by Sensei

[zapatos]

7 minutes ago, Sensei said:

This thread is about complying with national and international law.

So then by all means, you should continue to ignore my posting about complying with national and international law.

[Sensei]

22 minutes ago, zapatos said:

So then by all means, you should continue to ignore my posting about complying with national and international law.

Do you know that abroad the leaders of western countries are considered leaders of terrorist groups? Especially in countries that could be called hostile to the USA. Everyone creates their own definition. Ukrainians call Volodya a terrorist. And Russians call Ukrainians that too. You provide a quote and link to an article that has no significance whatsoever.

It does not change to the fact that instead of arresting him and putting him on trial, he was murdered, i.e. a lynching. In principle, after something like that how can one criticize, for example, the murder of Litvinenko or Kim's brother when Western politicians do exactly the same? An authoritarian politician sees what Western politicians are doing and does the same to his enemies. Real or imagined.

You don't know if he was even involved or not. You've only heard one version repeated over and over again. That's called indoctrination.

It reminds me of Zarqawi – he found out he was an Iraqi terrorist leader from TV. Which made him truly popular in the eyes of the Iraqis. The US authorities themselves made him a leader.

Edited Saturday at 06:18 PM by Sensei

[zapatos]

29 minutes ago, Sensei said:

Everyone creates their own definition.

Including you. Why is yours so special?

30 minutes ago, Sensei said:

You provide a quote and link to an article that has no significance whatsoever.

At least I tried. From you we only have assertions.

[swansont]

1 hour ago, Sensei said:

This thread is about complying with national and international law

!

Moderator Note

How one group of people characterizes another isn’t that; if all you’re going to do is soapbox then this will be closed. Start addressing your own topic.