Smoking / Drinking (reaction?)

[YT2095]

an observation I`ve not only made myself but others too.

Why is it that when we consume alcohol at a rate, our Cigarette consumption rises too?

 

I`ve seen a 10 a day smoker get through 20 cigs in an evening when on the "pop" this can almost double when on spirits! to the point of chain smoking!

 

what causes this? does the smoke enhance the drink?

does the body know that the drink is doing harm and Uses something in the cigs to limit it (a Chemical reaction)?

is it a Brain thing?

 

I`ve also noticed that a certain level of intoxication (one I`de consider extreme) that cig smoke makes the situation considerably worse and often ends up in a colapse or... how shall we say, reverse peristalsis!

[drochaid]

It's a good question. I've noticed this in friends who smoke that they'll barely smoke during the afternoon, then levels start to increase through the night with alcohol. I also have a friend who smokes only when drunk.

 

Would be good to see if anyone has knowledge if this.

[radman]

Social smokers? Maybe they find they need to smoke when they're drinking around people. Are other people smoking, or a smokey atmosphere that they are in?

I neither smoke nor drink well maybe I drink but don't smoke so this may not be any help

[Glider]

Nicotine counteracts some of the negative effects of alcohol and allows the smoker to maintain the alcohol 'high' for longer.

[YT2095]

Nicotine counteracts some of the negative effects of alcohol and allows the smoker to maintain the alcohol 'high' for longer.

 

is there a specific Mechanism for this effect? I know cigs have 100`s or more different chems involved, what produces this effect and counter effect And why does it seem to work quite the opposite when the "user" (victim/idiot) has consumed too much?

there appears to be a distinct and noticable "cutoff" point when a cig does you no good at all and seems to work against you.

 

it might be interesting to see, maybe later on in this thread if this can be acheived artificialy (by that I mean not consuming organics, but taking man made medication).

[Celeste22]

YT:

is there a specific Mechanism for this effect?

 

Both alcohol and nicotine increase dopamine.

"Dopamine is commonly associated with the 'pleasure system' of the brain, providing feelings of enjoyment and reinforcement to motivate us to do, or continue doing, certain activities."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine

 

Also, because alcohol is both a stimulant and depressant, smokers tend to develop cross- tolerance, ie, alcohol inhibits receptors in the cerebellum leading to loss of coordination and nicotene helps counter-act this effect, nicotene helps mitigate alcohol-induced loss of mental alertness. On the other hand, alcohol usually cancels out the negative effects of excessive nicotene use like nervousness, shakiness, etc.

 

As to "reverse peristalsis" maybe it's moderation that's needed....to much of a good thing (dopamine) leads to bouts of paranoia or may inhibit social interaction? or dopamine overstimulating adrenaline and in turn you have a kind of "burn out" ?

[Mayflower]

Being under the influence of alcohol tends to rise the consumption rate of most other drugs. I doubt it has anything to do with nicotine specifically.

[arkain101]

its super adictive as we all know.. when you get drunk your will power and morals can be impaired.. some people when they get very intoxicated who smoke at times, suddenly have a drive inside them to constantly smoke and keep that head buzz going on. The urges are multiplied,

 

An equally good question is,

Why do chances of sexually transmitted diseases and pregnancies increase when people get drunk? lol

[Glider]

is there a specific Mechanism for this effect?

It's pretty much exactly as Celeste22 says. Both substances elevate dopamine (DA) levels in the reward centres of the brain (mainly the nucleus accumbens, ventral tegmental area, medial forebrian bundle and the mesolimbic pathway). Alcohol excites dopaminergic neurones in the ventral tegmental area and the nucleus accumbens. Nicotine increases dopamine efflux in the reward pathway by mimicking acetylcholine at presynaptic nicotinic receptor sites, and exciting dopaminergic neurons, mainly in the nucleus accumbens. Most drugs of abuse target the nucleaus accumbens.

 

However, all psychoactive drugs, whilst having the common end effect of elevating DA levels in the reward system, also have their own specific effects.

 

Alcohol is a general supressant. It's function is to suppress (inhibit) neurological function. It makes you feel good because a) it causes DA release in the reward pathway by inhibiting DA neurone inhibition (which has the same result as exciting DA neurones), and B) one of the first behavioural systems it suppresses is also inhibitory (such as the response selection systems in the anterior singulate gyrus). If you inhibit inhibitory systems, it's like taking your foot off the brake, so you become less socially and behaviourally inhibited.

 

Increased doses go on to inhibit the vestibular nuclei (resulting in loss of balance) and motor systems (resulting in loss of motor coordination, slurred speech etc.). A high enough dose will inhibit respiritory systems and more important things like that, and that will kill you.

 

Nicotine, on the other hand, has a dose-dependent biphasic effect. Low, bolus doses excite nicotinic ACh receptors (acting like a stimulant). Higher doses block them (acting like a sedative). So, as people drink alcohol, you will see them 'nipping' at cigarettes, providing themselves with a stream of small bolus doses.

 

Whilst the common effects of both nicotine and alcohol is to increase DA relase, their specific effects are opposite. For example, where alcohol results in vasodilation and reduction in blood pressure, nicotine results in vasoconstriction and elevation in blood pressure.

 

And why does it seem to work quite the opposite when the "user" (victim/idiot) has consumed too much? there appears to be a distinct and noticable "cutoff" point when a cig does you no good at all and seems to work against you.

 

The cutoff point occurs because of the dose-dependent biphasic effect of nicotine. As you continue to consume alcohol, your neurological function becomes more supressed. For a while, small bolus doses of nicotine can counteract this, whilst also increasing DA release (feelings of reward).

 

However, as you consume more alcohol and get more pissed, it takes more nicotine to counteract the suppressive effects of alcohol and as I mentioned, at high enough doses, nicotine is also a supressant (it's a nicotinic ACh receptor antagonist). You then get the state where both drugs are acting as suppressants and it's pretty much downhill from there with the puking and falling down and swearing never to do it again thing going on for the rest of the night.

[aj47]

I think a lot of it has to do with alcohol affecting your cortex which is responsible for responsible thinking, reasoning and judgement so your more prone to temptation. But yea im sure theres a mechanism involved becasue i don't usually smoke but as soon as i drink i get really bad cravings for cigarettes.

Also most people who don't usually smoke like me enjoy the taste more and find they don't get the nausea and headaches usually associated with starting smoking.

[ashennell]

I just want to clarify one point in Gliders response. Don't get me wrong - his answers better than I could manage. However, DA release on the nucleus accumbens is not associated with the sensation of pleasure (as far as we know). This theory, the anhedonia hypothesis, was proposed but subsequently retracted. At the moment no-one is quite sure exactly what it does - it is certainly involved in addiction and motivation. A more recent hypothesis, the incentive salience hypothesis links it with 'wanting' the reward and not with 'liking' the reward. This may not be perfect either.

[sunspot]

Alcohol lowers conscious inhibitions and allows what is under the mask to have freer expression. Cigarettes, are a stimulant that helps relaxation. These appear to parallel each other. The alcohol releases emotions that were consciously repressed due to fear or inhibitions. Men get animated and women get warmer. This causes some anxiety for the ego behind the mask. The cigarettes lower the anxiety allowing the ego to be more relaxed. It is sort of primative burnt offering to scare away evil spirits.