Does Time Even Exist?

[IMI]

NO....Time does not exist as anything more than an adjective. Time merely describes duration between two given points. Think of it like speed. I know speed is probably not the best example, because it is based on time, but bear with none the less. Speed, of and by itself, does not exist. Speed measures rate of movement. "Speed", except for a bad Keanu Reeves movie, doesn't exist in any physical state. Same with time.

[JaKiri]

No. Time exists as a mathematical dimension. See: GR.

[lqg]

Originally posted by MaxCathedral

Post #1

another one that stated that time is an illusion is julian barbour.

you can read about him in his webpage: http://www.platonia.com

[NavajoEverclear]

yeah, intelligence had some major narrow minded traits. I mean i'm often (i'd rather believe its not always) a hypocrite, but at least i know so--- can that be considered a quality? Well anyway its the quality that gives hope to future progression if acted on.

 

I'm do not understand how you can say time doesn't exist---- for all we know anyone of our scientific ideas could be completely wrong, I see no reason to pick on time. My science teacher this year tells us that there's no such thing as time but as anyone else has not offered a completely thought out reason. Yes our measurement of time is made up---- but so is our measurments and names for everything else. We call it something so we can communicate what we're talking about. Our units for measurement in basically all cases are what they are because someone decided so. I take a step from here, to there----- it takes time. Time is what it takes for something to transpire--- and everything takes time. A car goes faster than i can run, because it takes less time to get from here to there. I'm having a hard time thinking up a more obvious way to put. So i'll be redundant as always : the only thing man-made about time is its name and the way we measure it. This is the same with everything, so what reason do you have to specify time as the physical property that doesn't actually exist?

 

I think people who say things like time doesn't exist do so because it makes them feel special to have such superior knowledge. "Hey look at me, i discovered time doesn't exist!" or maybe they have some incurable mental diffeciency to comprehend simple things, or maybe they know the truth and just say crap for some mysterious reason hidden deep in their brilliance. Or maybe they are possessed by Lucifer himself--- whose motive is to waste our time argueing over stupid things. The possibilites are endless.

[NavajoEverclear]

Thanks for the link. I agree with julian barbour, because he said that the phenomenon is real, just that our perception of it could be flawed (i wont bother to go back to see exactly what he said), which it could be because i've heard that in some parts of the universe time may run backward in comparison to us (however that works i don't know)----- but none of the anti-time activists have offered such clarification to their beliefs

[JaKiri]

NavajoEverclear said in post #29 :

for all we know anyone of our scientific ideas could be completely wrong

 

They're not, they're just insufficiently accurate.

[NavajoEverclear]

thats one possibility, that they are completely wrong is also another. I'm sure i've redundantly told how i believe proof is impossible, and i haven't seen anyone sufficiently provide evidence to proove it wrong. You know what, think I'll find a way to proove it wrong. Well i have admited that if it applied to itself itself is as only right on a 50/50 chance, so maybe that counts. I need to think about it more.

[JaKiri]

Well, given that some of our theories are accurate to as far as we can measure, I don't think they're entirely wrong somehow.

[lqg]

Originally posted by NavajoEverclear

Thanks for the link. I agree with julian barbour, because he said that the phenomenon is real, just that our perception of it could be flawed (i wont bother to go back to see exactly what he said), which it could be because i've heard that in some parts of the universe time may run backward in comparison to us (however that works i don't know)----- but none of the anti-time activists have offered such clarification to their beliefs

have you seen the video?

[NavajoEverclear]

video? I'll try to find it BTW way i meant none of the anti-time activists HERE offered clarification to their beliefs, such as julian has, which is why i dont argue with him.

 

accurate as far as we can measure--- maybe we don't know crap about measuring. Maybe our minds our designed to illude us, or we are plugged into the matrix. I don't believe any of these things, but i admit that i know of no way to proove any of what i do believe. I have my own reasons for the way i am, but i cant proove their 'correctness'. Have you read Inherit the Wind(if you haven't and have two hours(or less depending on how fast you read), its a really short play, with some interesting concepts(though i think it feels incomplete and relying too much on the novetly of creativity to take it a step further))? Well i dont think it was established exactly what Drummond believes, but some people believe that he was not an athiest and deffending freedom unconditionally (as he said himself, he 'defends the right to be wrong'). Not to say i'm as cool as Drummond, just to present that i don't personally believe everything we know is wrong, and think that most of what we know is correct---- though i don't know enough about a lot of it to judge intelligently. I just mean to say those possibilities are possible, and think it could be a good step of progression if people understood that.

[des-esseintes]

Lynds is groping in a very positive, and, in fact, revolutionary direction. There is no such thing as an 'instant', it is a pure mathematical abstraction. He is approaching the dialectical worldview, worked out by Hegel and perfected by Marx.

[ydoaPs]

Time is one of the eleven dimensions and causes the interval between events. it does exist because it can warp. it does warp, therefore it is.

[john5746]

Time doesn't seem to exist in the quantum world. If someone were to view us in ALL-TIME, they would have to express our location in probabilities. We would seem to exist everywhere until a snapshot(observation) was taken.

[Guest Luemas]

Time is one of the eleven dimensions and causes the interval between events. it does exist because it can warp. it does warp, therefore it is.

 

Thats according M theory which isnt proven by a long shot.

 

I like the idea of, time doesnt exist as a dimention because we cannot move along it. But at th same time the idea that time is a relative dimention refutes that. Time is something that happens to things, unlike the three spatial dimentions that objects happen to.

 

There is no such thing as an 'instant', it is a pure mathematical abstraction

 

What about planck time? that is said to be the smallest possible instance of time and thefore an instant.

[K. B. Robertson]

Time is one of the eleven dimensions and causes the interval between events. it does exist because it can warp. it does warp, therefore it is.

 

Yourdadonapogos astutely expresses another way to allude to what Einstein and others call, 'geodesics' - an apparently 'curved' line that is actually 'straight': the illusion that an object 'falls', or that the path (trajectory) of a horizontally fired misile or thrown baseball is 'curved', when in fact the entire coordinate system surrounding it 'warps' (is in a constant state of unrecognized 4-dimensional, physically accelerating expansion).

 

Please refer Einstein's explanation of gravity, via his 'elevator analogy', as presented in many books about Einstein's General Principle of Relativity, including Martin Gardner's superbly illustrated RELATIVITY FOR THE MILLIONS. Demonstrating that the entire frame of reference (B) is moving up to overtake and meet 'point A', while creating the illusion that point A is 'descending' to meet (the apparently 'unmoving') point B.

 

That is the axiomatic Principle of General Relativity: 'The inability to distinguish the known effects of acceleration, from the unknown cause of gravity' = F, an unidentified force that Einstein equated with 'accleration' and the 'warping of space-time':

 

"A WORD ABOUT SIGNS OF THE TIMES.

A Disinformational Tyme Of The Signs:

 

"Time is a hallucination purveyed by the inventors of space."

 

- A (popularly deluded UNREALITY INDUSTRY Sponsored)

bumpersticker mentality.

- By Kent Benjamin Robertson - URL http://einstein.periphery.cc/ )

 

THE (Stubborn) MYTHOLOGY OF ARBITRARY SPACE & TIME:

 

The present standard of measurement for space is said to have been determined by a King who extended his arm and hand and pronounced that the distance between the tip of his nose to the end of his index finger would henceforth be the definitional standard, now called a 'yard'.

Divisible into three feet. Each foot divisible into 12 inches...

 

This (unarguably) capricious determination of the value of space, unfortunately brought about a misunderstanding that the existence and/or value of time is likewise arbitrary (a 'human invention') - just as the - above described - value of space was determined by arbitrary means.

 

Whereas, space would still in fact exist, whether humans existed, to ambivalently standardize it or not.

 

(Moving Right Along. Racing Through The Spacing.)

 

The formal definition of time is synonymous with motion, and conversely.

 

Motion occurs in space; within which space-time is the interval between two or more events. The reason Einstein modified Newtonian Classic Mechanical translation of 'Time and Space', to the Relativistic expression of space-time.

 

There cannot be time without space, nor conversely - much as there is no magnetism without electricity, or electriciy without magnetism: therefore equals electromagnetism. (Monopoles - electricity or magnetism independent of <non concurrent with> the other, have yet to be found.)

 

"Time is a hallucination purveyed by the inventors of space."

- A (popularly deluded) bumpersticker mentality.

Part II

 

Actually: terrestrial time standards (as a down-to-earth example) are based on astronomical motions of the planet(s) through space around the sun.

A planetary year equals its completion of a 360 degree arc - round trip - about the sun (Which, itself is bound toward Vega).

An earth month of 30 days is 1/12th of a year.

A week is 1/4th of that month.

A day is 1/7th of that week.

An hour is 1/24th of a day.

A minute is 1/60th of an hour.

A second is 1/60th of a minute...

 

Consequently, a second of time - for inexorable example - is also 18 1/2 miles of space: traveled by the earth, in its annual orbit around the sun.

 

A 24 hour day is based on the rotational motion of the earth on it's own axis. The circumference of the earth is just over 24,000 miles; that is how fast the earth is spinning - per hour. Proving very simply and elegantly that space, time and motion are synonymous - no singular facet of this triangular consideration existing without the 'other two'...

 

Sums up the bumper-stickered, satanistically inspired hallucination.

Its about time. Time has come today.

 

Einstein's 'Non-Absolute Relativistic 4-D space-time.'

What it is:

Time, furthermore, in 4 dimensions, is shorter and faster in smaller, past (microcosmic) spaces. and, slower (dilated) in future (macrocosmic) larger spaces; when compared to present time at any given moment of an observer in the eternal present: exactly between small-fast-space and large-slow- space.

IN a 4-dimensional (physically expanding universe) a *square mile is not the same spatial size, when compared with itself; from the present: relative to (smaller, more dense) past or (larger, less dense) future 4-D expanding physical matter, and (causing the observed - non 'big bng' initiated - expansion of space (Hubbles expanding - 'red shift' -Universe.)

 

Neither therefore, is 60 *miles per hour (or 186,282 m.p.s. - the speed of light; 'celeritas constant) always the same relative speed. Nor is a year, month, week, day, hour or second, always the same comparative duration in the Present ( when compared with itself) in the Past or Future.

 

Proving that the value of time varies with the value of space it occurs in.

 

Refer relativistic time dilation.

Slow time occurring in relatively larger spaces; fast time occurring in relatively smaller spaces.

The relativity of time values.

For which, until here and now, there are not even any failed explanations.

 

In a 4-D (physically as well as spatially expanding) universe, the value of time and space (4-D space-time) inevitably varies, from coordinate system to coordinate system.

The speed of light for example, is ever-increasing, while remaining constant: relative to the coordinate system in which it originates and from which it is measured.

The value of time being covariant with the smaller and larger - earlier and later - 4-D space-times it occurs and/or is measured in."

 

- Updated Excerpt from, GRAVITY IS THE 4th DIMENSION:

Electricity Is The 5th Dimension, Magnetism is the 6th Dimension

(The Reinstatement Of Einstein's Presently Abandoned <Steady State>

Unified Field, w'out Mathematics. )

 

- by Kent Benjamin Robertson,

Copyrights, '59, '60. '66, '70, '79, '85 & '99.

(Website URL http://einstein.periphery.cc/

Condensed from 627 pages.)

 

Vini Vici Entiendo

(Hay Uno Dio Quien Es Alma Siempre)

[Beholder]

 

First...math is not a man made structure.

 

QUOTE]

 

 

Wrong. Math IS a man made structure. And unfortunately it is limited when it comes to explain many of the core aspects of quantum mechanics. Math is a criative human tool, just a framework that explains, perdict and reproduce many but far from all aspects of nature.