blike Posted July 23, 2002 Posted July 23, 2002 What is time? Some people think of time as a human concept, but to me it seems as if time, to some extent, is woven into the fabric of space. If it weren't, how would space warp time? Someone on the boards(don't remember who) said that time is the direction in which entropy increases. I can't imagine a world without time. If someone/something were to live outside time, what would it be like? Would there still be cause and effect? When I look at it from that perspective, it seems as is time exists only in our heads. :shrug:
Radical Edward Posted July 23, 2002 Posted July 23, 2002 it is regarded as the direction increases, yes. in terms of general relativity, it is interesting, as time depends on the observer, and indeed, in terms of general relativity, time becomes mixed with space in the terms of extreme gravitational fields, to the point where within the event horizon of a black hole, the future can only be described by the direction towards the singularity, it also looks odd when considering black holes. so time from this point of view has an equivalence to space. Quantum mechanically, it doesn't. right to the point where if one considers the entropic argument again, time makes no sense in very small Quantum regions, since it has been shown that entropy can decrease in certain quantum systems. Interesting that GR and QM disagree, since when one looks at them in their own regieme i.e. the classical and the quantum realms, they are both beautiful models. Only the future will find the link between the two.
dragoon Posted July 23, 2002 Posted July 23, 2002 time i believe must exist. if there werent time and we were all here would everything happen all at once or just not at all? what would be the reference to serperate now or later or never or sometime. If there is no such thing as time how would we ever come up with when to do and what to do because i dont think anything would exist. Time and space could be intertwined through movement and physics. Gravity pulls a certain amount of force which must contribute to the movement rates and speeds such things as ourself can possibly move at with others. Such as living on earth or another planet it is said you would age differently. or is that just based on how much sunlight and such you have? i'm not sure. Is time the same way in another dimention? or solar-system? those are some ideas to play with.
aman Posted July 23, 2002 Posted July 23, 2002 If time is actually quantum strobing advancing incrementally in little slices rather than a smooth flow, the strobing effect would have to originate in each pice of matter relative to other pieces. On Earth it looks as though it flows smooth but in the macrocosom we see descrepencies due to distance and different large mass strobing sources. Just for thought. Just aman:lame:
MajinVegeta Posted February 22, 2003 Posted February 22, 2003 Why can't time be an illusion? After all, we are only conscious of time because of our straitium, right?
aman Posted February 22, 2003 Posted February 22, 2003 But what a really great illusion. By our stratum I imagine you mean the realm of from 14 billion measurable years down to the microcosomic measurement of observable quantum phenomena. For analogy, using radiation frequencies we can measure from microwaves, radio, infra-red, visual, ultra violet, x-ray, gamma ray and place them to scale on a line stretching from Earth to the Sun. The visual spectrum would be the diameter of a molecule. Our stratum of experience is only a small slice of millions of miles of activity but it's real to us and not really an illusion. It's just a very very complicated reality. Just aman
MajinVegeta Posted February 24, 2003 Posted February 24, 2003 How do we know its not an illusion? You haven't answered my question thoroughly. The fact of the matter is simply that we don't have anything else to compare time with. I guess it is anisotropic, when you think about it. Lets just say time is real and it is not real. What do you think?
fafalone Posted February 24, 2003 Posted February 24, 2003 Time is the direction in which entropy increases. Cyclic events occur, therefore time exists, or there would be no cycles.
MajinVegeta Posted February 24, 2003 Posted February 24, 2003 Check this out: http://www.physicsforums.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=915
Sayonara Posted February 24, 2003 Posted February 24, 2003 Originally posted by MajinVegeta How do we know its not an illusion? You haven't answered my question thoroughly. The fact of the matter is simply that we don't have anything else to compare time with. I guess it is anisotropic, when you think about it. Lets just say time is real and it is not real. What do you think? It's probably a good idea to try and work out what time is before you decide to consider it an illusion. Occam's Razor... multiplicity isn't desirable... hint hint. If you are going to cannonball ahead and decide it's an illusion based on no evidence whatsoever, at least provide some idea as to how and why that illusion exists.
Radical Edward Posted February 24, 2003 Posted February 24, 2003 Originally posted by MajinVegeta How do we know its not an illusion? how do we know that everything isn't an illusion*? *this is a rhetorical question.
Sayonara Posted February 24, 2003 Posted February 24, 2003 Originally posted by Radical Edward *this is a rhetorical question. I have a bad feeling about this* *[/Leia]
aman Posted February 24, 2003 Posted February 24, 2003 Our technology has come a long ways and our labs are vastly superior to the days of "I think therefore I am" but the ability to prove oneself is still seemingly out off reach cus nothings impossible. I was fascinated by a Star Trek NG episode where a holodeck subject tried to be real, and even at the layer he was finally by consensus real, he was still buried in another holodeck program. I think we are real but our imaginations are outrunning the fact since we have so little data on the subject. The curse of science is little data and minds that have so much room for it. Just aman
MajinVegeta Posted February 25, 2003 Posted February 25, 2003 A physicsforums.com quote: Originally posted by Mr. Robin Parsons: Following the proper definition of 'infinite' tells us that time cannot exist , as in, if the infinite does exist, then there can be no time in an infinity, and we must be existant, for lack of any other method of stating it, 'within it'. Since it is of my opinion that we do exist within the infinite, then time cannot exist as anything other then an illusion arising from motion/movement.
MajinVegeta Posted February 25, 2003 Posted February 25, 2003 Originally posted by MajinVegeta Lets just say time is real and it is not real. Let me fill in the blanks: Time is real for those who observe it as real. Time is not real for those who don't observe it real. <--- Ahh... kind of reminds me of relativity!
Sayonara Posted February 25, 2003 Posted February 25, 2003 Mr Robin Parsons is using a flawed argument. He says that time cannot exist in an infinity. I expect he bases this on the fact that an infinity is a theoretical concept with no beginning and no end. What he proposes is that since it has no dimensionality it cannot be measured or divided, however he fails to take into account that the arbitrary nature of our perception means we do this all the time. He also goes some way to contradicting himself when he says that we must exist 'within' an infinity, but time cannot. I don't know about him but I haven't seen anyone starting their life in the grave and de-aging towards the womb recently, which suggests to me that we are all part of the same 'flow' of time regardless of whether we are in an infinity or not. He can't prove that we live in an infinity, he can't prove that there cannot be time in an infinity (conceptually, mathematically, or even logically), and he can't prove that we even exist. I seriously hope there was someone on physicsforums.com who pointed this out to him. I can't begin to guess why he thinks we're in a temporal infinity. If you subscribe to creationism, God created everything. Therefore there was a beginning, therefore the cosmos is not infinite. If you subscribe to the Big Bang theory, then the entire universe was created in one event. Therefore there was a beginning, therefore the cosmos is not infinite.
baigligan Posted February 27, 2003 Posted February 27, 2003 time is something virtual.it is in our brains.we invent it to compare process in the world.thats why i think travel back in time is impossible because we should reverse all process in the universe.i terribly doubt can we make that. travel in the future is something possible i thing,because(if Einstein i right) when we travel with speed close to the speed of light(300 000 km.per second)process for us are slowing down so when for us is coming just next day for peole on the earth can be next milenium.
Sayonara Posted February 27, 2003 Posted February 27, 2003 Originally posted by baigligan time is something virtual.it is in our brains.we invent it to compare process in the world.thats why i think travel back in time is impossible because we should reverse all process in the universe. Interesting idea. Does this mean that if everybody was able to reverse the perceptive process in their brain, that in effect time would be running backwards? That would be quite handy.
baigligan Posted February 27, 2003 Posted February 27, 2003 Originally posted by Sayonara³ Interesting idea. Does this mean that if everybody was able to reverse the perceptive process in their brain, that in effect time would be running backwards? That would be quite handy. if our brains have this power to reverse everything in the world it will be possible but we should use so great souse of energy that u even cant image it.
Radical Edward Posted February 27, 2003 Posted February 27, 2003 Originally posted by baigligan time is something virtual.it is in our brains.we invent it to compare process in the world. but our brains work because ime does. I sense a circular argument.
MajinVegeta Posted March 3, 2003 Posted March 3, 2003 I wonder what Einstein would have to say about this?
Dudde Posted March 3, 2003 Posted March 3, 2003 if you could reverse time, what would happen to all that has already happened? it would undo itself? that could have some pretty bad side effects if you think about it;)
fafalone Posted March 3, 2003 Posted March 3, 2003 By the time we figured out how to do that, we'd know better
MajinVegeta Posted March 4, 2003 Posted March 4, 2003 reverse time? Do you mean go back in time? Well, that's just impossible. (that is, if someone can get the positive energy out of a finite region of space....)
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