ironizer Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 some cars have Nitrous Oxide (N2O or NOS) to boost acceleration, but that stuff hurts your engine ... so i was thinking, wouldn't it be smarter to use pure oxygen (or very high oxygen concentration in air) in a tank and use that for an extra boost.. you know, mix it in the turbo-charger, so that you get the 20PSI mixture of mist gasoline + lots of oxygen = a he!! of a boost:cool: i know it will cause the temp to rise, but hey, you don't use it all the time, and if you get an intercooler it should be good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starbug1 Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 wouldn't that also be more dangerous...? eek face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanJ Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 some cars have Nitrous Oxide (N2O or NOS) to boost acceleration, but that stuff hurts your engine ... so i was thinking, wouldn't it be smarter to use pure oxygen (or very high oxygen concentration in air) in a tank and use that for an extra boost.. you know, mix it in the turbo-charger, so that you get the 20PSI mixture of mist gasoline + lots of oxygen = a he!! of a boost:cool: i know it will cause the temp to rise, but hey, you don't use it all the time, and if you get an intercooler it should be good! Warning: this is a very dangerous idea and should not be tested under any circumstances! Put it this way - you start mixing thisgs with petrol and don't know what your doing you'll blow yourself up. Oxygen is highly flamable! Just about anything will burn in pre oxygen - you mix this stuff with petrol and you'll get a bang but it will not be the one you want... I would seriously suggest you do not do this! Have you ever actually ignited petrol outside of a car - I have and I can tell you it is extermly violatile, it already has a high octane number - you start adding Oxygen to the mix (Oxygen makes thing burn hotter and easier) and you'll probably get an explosion... Please, please do not do this - it could really be very dangerous Cheers, Ryan Jones Cheers, Ryan Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primarygun Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Oxygen is highly flammable Oxygen supports burning but itself cannot be called flammable, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vrus Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Oxygen need something to burn with. If you have a gas jar filled with oxygen, it will require something to burn with to use up the oxygen in the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanJ Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Oxygen supports burning but itself cannot be called flammable, isn't it? Oxygen is listed as highly inflamable (Means its very flammable). So yes it is... Its probably because of the fact Oxygen is required for things to burn... ergo if just about anything is put in power or vapour form in Oxygen then it will burn hence its inflamability rating... Cheers, Ryan Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdurg Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 RyanJ, oxygen is not flammable at all. O2 will support combution VERY well, but O2 itself is not considered flammable. Flammable means that the substance is able to be burned quite readily. Gasoline, Phosphorus, methane, propane, ethanol, etc. are all properly labeled as flammable because in the presence of an oxidizer they will combut. Oxygen will not combust unless mixed with a stronger oxidizer, but even then anything that's a stronger oxidizer than oxygen will make non-flammable things combust as well. It's really just a point of semantics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanJ Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 RyanJ, oxygen is not flammable at all. O2 will support combution VERY well, but O2 itself is not considered flammable. Flammable means that the substance is able to be burned quite readily. Gasoline, Phosphorus, methane, propane, ethanol, etc. are all properly labeled as flammable because in the presence of an oxidizer they will combut. Oxygen will not combust unless mixed with a stronger oxidizer, but even then anything that's a stronger oxidizer than oxygen will make non-flammable things combust as well. It's really just a point of semantics. Then why on the O2 tanks in school does it have the inflammable notice? I'm confused.... Maybe, as I said its because when it is mixed wiht other things it can cause fires? Cheers, Ryan Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conceptual Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Nitrous hurts the engine due to the production of nitric acid. It is much safer than trying to use pure oxygen unless you could create a catalytic production of oxygen, i..e, solid or liquid that makes O2. It would still be easier to line the cylinders with stainless steel or even ceramic. These are more resistant to nitric acid. A stainless exhaust might also be in order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanJ Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Nitrous hurts the engine due to the production of nitric acid. It is much safer than trying to use pure oxygen unless you could create a catalytic production of oxygen, i..e, solid or liquid that makes O2. It would still be easier to line the cylinders with stainless steel or even ceramic. These are more resistant to nitric acid. A stainless exhaust might also be in order. Even if you could find a catalyst that could produce Oxygen from soemthing then I stuill think that the petrol vaour would explode with the extra oxygen in the nixture. if you cna find someway to protect the engine and exhaust systems from the Nitric acid (Another catalyst maybe?) then it would probably be a safer option Cheers, Ryan Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdurg Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 The flammability symbol on oxygen tanks is because, as you guessed, virtually EVERYTHING becomes flammable in an atmosphere of pure oxygen. For an engine, you must remember that explosions are supposed to happen. That's how an engine works. A flammable fuel is combusted inside an engine which causes a piston to move which make other things turn, etc. etc. The point of an engine is to have explosions. So a normally operated engine running on petrol and atmospheric air has explosions occuring constantly. The problem with using pure oxygen in there is that it can cause the explosions to happen at the wrong times. If your fuel is combusting when it's not supposed to, then your engine will knock and damage to the parts of your engine can happen. In addition, at the high temperatures in an engine an excess of oxygen may cause the engine parts themselves to oxidize and break down. That would lead to a mechanical failure which could be very costly and/or dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woelen Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Then why on the O2 tanks in school does it have the inflammable notice? I'm confused.... Maybe' date=' as I said its because when it is mixed wiht other things it can cause fires? Cheers, Ryan Jones[/quote'] Look carefully at the signs. Probably it is not the sign for flammable, but the sign for oxidizer. Flammable compounds have an orange label with a flame on it. Oxidizers also have an orange label with a flame on it, but the flame starts from an O. Oxidizer symbol: http://ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/PO/potassium_chlorate.html Flammable symbol: http://ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/PR/1-propanol.html The difference in the symbols is subtle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanJ Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Look carefully at the signs. Probably it is not the sign for flammable' date=' but the sign for oxidizer. Flammable compounds have an orange label with a flame on it. Oxidizers also have an orange label with a flame on it, but the flame starts from an O. Oxidizer symbol: http://ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/PO/potassium_chlorate.html Flammable symbol: http://ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/PR/1-propanol.html The difference in the symbols is subtle.[/quote'] I'll have a check in school tomorow, I'm shure though that it has the flammable symbol... maybe the teacher stuck it on there for a joke... it would match his sence of humour... Cheers, Ryan Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akcapr Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Oxygen can burn in Flourine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdurg Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Yes, but the flammable designation is to denote something that burns in an oxygen atmosphere. Oxygen does not burn in oxygen, therefore it's not called 'flammable'. Fluorine is labeled as an oxidizer, as is oxygen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironizer Posted October 19, 2005 Author Share Posted October 19, 2005 hey, most of you don't get the point. You are TRYING to get an explosion in the piston, so it will expand quickly and produce the horses. No one would be an idiot and pump like 20 PSI of pure oxygen, all you are trying to do is add a little bit, enough to improve performance. Most pistons, like in the Mustang Cobra, already have cast-iron pistons, and so you won't worry about blowing them up or melting them. Dragsters use some other fuel that they say burns 7 times hotter/quicker than gasoline. Little amounts of high concentrated oxygen in the carburator won't hurt, and plus, like i said, you would get an intercooler and cool down the pistons before re-using the boost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akcapr Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 I think dragsters use methanol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironizer Posted October 19, 2005 Author Share Posted October 19, 2005 yeah, something like that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdurg Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 hey, most of you don't get the point. You are TRYING to get an explosion in the piston, so it will expand quickly and produce the horses. No one would be an idiot and pump like 20 PSI of pure oxygen, all you are trying to do is add a little bit, enough to improve performance. Most pistons, like in the Mustang Cobra, already have cast-iron pistons, and so you won't worry about blowing them up or melting them. Dragsters use some other fuel that they say burns 7 times hotter/quicker than gasoline. Little amounts of high concentrated oxygen in the carburator won't hurt, and plus, like i said, you would get an intercooler and cool down the pistons before re-using the boost. Yes, but you do have to ensure that ALL of the oxygen is then consumed in the chamber. Yes, but remember that there is a great deal of compression inside the cylinders in order to make the explosion happen much more efficiently. (By compressing the fuel and oxygen, you ensure that they are in intimate contact and the fuel will completely combust to ensure no carbon buildup in the engine). If you cut back on the amount of oxygen, then you will have a good deal of soot and unburned fuel residing inside cylinders and inside the exhaust system. If you have too much oxygen in there and the engine isn't designed for that type of power, then you have multiple issues. The first issue is that combustion with a greater than normal concentration of oxygen can cause unexpected explosions in the cylinder (known as knocking), as well as a more powerful explosion which can cause physical damage to the pistons and other parts of the engine. If you look into it, you'll see that nitrous oxide fueled cars don't run 100% of the time on nitrous. This is because the extra power generated from burning with N2O can damage the engine. This is in addition to the acid vapors it creates. The second issue with the combustion of oxygen is that if you have more oxygen in there than you do fuel, and you have it compressed, you'll introduce a lot of chemical damage to the cylinders as well. If you have an iron or aluminum engine, the increased O2 pressure at the higher temperature will cause an oxidation of the cylinder and it will rust from the inside out. That's not a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironizer Posted October 19, 2005 Author Share Posted October 19, 2005 oxygen is going to go in there anyways... cars can take it, i mean, some places like high up in the mountains there is more concentration of oxygen in the air than in urban areas... the engine doesn't blow when you are driving it in the woods... ...as for the oxydation, that won't be a problem, cuz normal cars that have TURBO don't rust, so if you add a little more O2 then not like it will make a big difference; and the knocking, well, if you have the same ratio of gas - air - O2 in each piston, it should burn uniformly... you're basically saing that your car will blow if you put higher octane gas, because it burns faster... wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanJ Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 you're basically saing that your car will blow if you put higher octane gas, because it burns faster... wrong! Unless you have sufficient ocygen for the higher octane fule to burn in then you would get a lot of messy stuff... if you could find a way to readily supply the oxygen to the pistons then it should give you a boost. You'd also have to o some testing to find the optimim oxygen to air ratio - if you cna then you can patent it and sell it to the car manufacturers Why do you think they don't use really high octane fules in cars? It sprobably ebcause it would ignire too easily though there jsut be ways to do this also. Fild some way to denature the fule intil it comes into the cylinder then just before the compression activate it with some kind of catalyst and then add the pure Oxygen and then that should work good - maybe this would also be better in the Engineering section? Cheers, Ryan Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironizer Posted October 20, 2005 Author Share Posted October 20, 2005 i was just saying, i don't have the opportunity to do this testing, but it would be cool, just have a tank and press a button when you want boost, and the extra oxygen will mix in the carburator, you also have the chip in the car that would mess with the pressure, etc. I don't know if you can make money off this stuff because i bet some1 already thought of it, but if anyone of you wanna try hey, good luck... and if you suceed, keep in mind u jacked the idea from someone.. neah, lol jk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halash Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 what??????? oxygen cant react with itself!!!!!!!!! it has to react with carbon or hydrogen and all that other stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanJ Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 oxygen cant react with itself!!!!!!!!! Actually it can react with its self by forming trioxygen' date=' AKA Ozone. ([ce']O_3[/ce]) But your right oxygen is an oxidant, it reccieves electrons from other elements / compounds and in the process reduces its self by gaining the electrons If you could make this work commercially then a lot of people may be interested but it would be no small challange! Cheers, Ryan Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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