Neanderthal ancestry in modern humans

[Ironduke]

I've read alot of arguments for and against the theory of Neanderthal ancestry in modern Europeans and Near Eastern peoples, and I was wondering if anybody had good material on these arguments or arguments themselves on the theory.

[bascule]

I've kind of always thought this with the way the Picts were described, but I could equally see it being that they were simply erradicated by Homo sapiens sapiens... especially since many doubt the Neanderthals could even talk...

[AzurePhoenix]

Not anymore. Fossil evidence suggested that they were indeed capable of speech, but that they would simply have spoken slightly slower and at a nasally pitch. Whether or not they did speek is the question, for they could easily have had a rich, complex language without ever leaving behind signs of it.

[bascule]

Not anymore.

 

Dawkins said otherwise in The Ancestor's Tale

[AzurePhoenix]

I'm always interested in what Dawkin's might have to say. Does he think that they couldn't, or simply that they didn't? What was his theory, and what was it based on?

[john5746]

http://www.scienceforums.net/forums/showthread.php?t=14445&highlight=Neanderthal

 

May find something in that thread. I wonder if we have more in common with Neanderthal or chimp?

 

Edit: This is a reply to the first post of the thread

[bascule]

All hominids are going to be more closely related to each other than they are to chimps (i.e. they share a common ancestor with each other which chimps do not)

 

Although obviously Lucy is more chimp-like than man-like...

[bascule]

I'm always interested in what Dawkin's might have to say. Does he think that they couldn't, or simply that they didn't? What was his theory, and what was it based on?

 

He said the issue is still open to debate and that there is some very compelling evidence that they lacked the vocal development and brain structures required for (complex) speech, iirc. I can quote the relevant sections of the book later today if you'd like.

[john5746]

All hominids are going to be more closely related to each other than they are to chimps (i.e. they share a common ancestor with each other which chimps do not)

 

Although obviously Lucy is more chimp-like than man-like...

 

Yes, your right that was a brain fart I had.....

[bascule]

Dawkins had this to say on Neanderthal/Modern interbreeding:

 

Are we descended from Neanderthals? If so, they would have to have interbred with Homo sapiens sapiens[/i']. But did they? They overlapped for a long time in Europe, and there was surely contact between them. But did it go beyond contact? Do modern Europeans inherit any Neanderthal genes? This is a hotly debated issue, recently reignited by a remarkable extraction of DNA from late Neanderthal bones. So far, we have extracted only the maternally inherited mitochondrial DNA, but this is enough for a tentative verdict. Neanderthal mitochondria are quite distinct from those of all surviving humans, suggesting that Neanderthals are no closer to Europeans than to any other modern peoples. In other words, the female-line common ancestor of Neanderthals and all surviving humans long pre-dates Mitochondrial Eve: about 500,000 years as opposed to 140,000. This genetic evidence suggests that successful interbreeding between Neanderthals and Moderns was rare.

 

On the issue of Neanderthal speech:

 

Nobody knows whether they could speak, and opinions differ on this important question. Archaeology hints that technological ideas may have passed both ways between Neanderthals and Moderns, but this could have been by imitation rather than language.