Rocket Engine help

[driveit]

i am thinking off building one off those sugar/KNO3/sulfur rocket engines BUT i want the case to be desposible and the rocket too... so what i was thinking for a cheap solution was MAYBE... i could use duct tape (tightly rapped together), I know this is probaly the stupidest thing i ever said but, would it work? (doughts) if not do you guys have any suggestions...

[akcapr]

the heat and pressure would most likely melt then burst the casing. However if you had it really thick it may work. For really small motors it may work.

[[w00t]]

i am thinking off building one off those sugar/KNO3/sulfur rocket

Would there be performance differents if Charcoal is used instread of Sugar?

 

Im thinking that if you use really thick casing then it wouldnt go very far, since it would be more heavier

[driveit]

what type of casing are you using and if you mix charcol/KNO3/sulfur i thinks its black powder but i would either use KNO3/sugar/sulfer or KNO3/sugar/red iron oxide, both work. o and using that charcol method might make more power i dunno, all i really know is the what i call "kn/su2"

[[w00t]]

Hears a nice turtorial on "Sorbitol and kno3 propellant" http://www.trailertrashaerospace.com/propellant_page.htm

 

i havent tried it my self tho..

 

still have to get my hands on Sulfur

[driveit]

here are all the steps to make the propellent, making a casing, making a nozzle, loading the propellent,priming and firing and even a little extra help

this will take a long while to read all of it but it has everything you need you need to make a rocket (make sure you read everything)

click on the site

http://www.alphalink.com.au/~brucej/nickle.htm

[Halash]

using any metal for the casing is really dangerous (i know from experience, one almost blew up.)

 

i would use paper rapped around a 1/4 in dia. rod. and apply white glue between layers.

 

it works pretty good it you have a short burn rocket engine. if it is too long, the case will burn up. so make sure u grind your fuel mix well!

[driveit]

cool ill try that

[driveit]

what if i mixed a tiny amount of water with the KNO3/sugar/sulfur mix to make a paste, so i can mold it a bit, and would it work when it dried?

[akcapr]

add sugar syrup- corn syrup.

[[w00t]]

i know if its only kno3+sugar, when water is added and then melting the mixture over fire, then left to dry, it turns hard and its "WHITE" colour.. it makes a much better smoke bomb as it lasts 8x longer with same smoke output...

 

 

also, if u just add a little bit of water without heating it, if u leave it to dry, it will start to crumble and fall apart when u touch it

[driveit]

thats fine if it crumbles a bit all i need is it to stay semi-solid when i load it a punch the core out. OH also if you dip normal white cotton string in hair spray and set it on fire it makes a kick @$$ fuse. takes 5 seconds to make a burns for a long time note it ignites pretty quick like gas on a floor so if you need a long delay say 5 seconds cut alot and coil it in circles and make sure the coiled string is seperated at least 1 cm or more becuase it will just jump the gap THIS REALLY WORKS GOOD!!!

[akcapr]

Heat the sugar + kno3 in a oven, add syrup mix and heat some more till like almost all the water is out. IF u want it maleable dont heat it to much. THe best thing howevedr is to heat it till it strarts to bubble and crust over then load that directly in the casing and quickly punch a core. It will harden on cooling then and make the propellant good burning.

[DukerX]

The heating of KNO3/sugar mixes is something one shouldn't take lightly, as it is a high-energy propellant.

Never use open flame to heat this stuff

Use a hot-plate and preferably an oil bath to act as a thermal buffer

Don't make big batches, as it's harder to heat it evenly, resulting in even higher risk of ignition.

 

Hand rolled printer-paper tubes could be used for very small rockets, but if you plan to make 1/4"ID or bigger, you should consider using heavy virgin craft paper, or using premade tubes.

The reason for using stronger tubes is that the pressure developed inside even a moderate size rocket engine is ... significant.

 

 

It have already been mentioned earlier that there are quite a big comunity on the net dedicated to model rockets / amateur rocketry, wich have loads of information on this subject, including the dagers involved.

 

The reason for this reply?

To make people who just read the tread aware of the danger involved in making this kind of fuel, as it has been somewhat neglected in earlier posts.

[akcapr]

Out of curiosity, Have you made kno3/sugar propellant? If you heat in an oven (cooking) even the highes temp will not set it off, let alone 350 degress F. So using an oven is perfectly safe, however u still should be present at the time.

[[w00t]]

Heat the sugar + kno3 in a oven, add syrup mix and heat some more till like almost all the water is out. IF u want it maleable dont heat it to much. THe best thing howevedr is to heat it till it strarts to bubble and crust over then load that directly in the casing and quickly punch a core. It will harden on cooling then and make the propellant good burning.

 

heating sugar + kno3 in the oven, wouldnt the mixture ignite while its getting heated?

[YT2095]

I strongly advise against making any of this "Candy" mixture at all, it`s simply Begging for trouble and it`s unnecessary too!

 

the idea is make a solid fuel grain, that`s all.

so why not use a Binder instead, Like the Professionals do!?

I personaly use Dextrin, and when that stuff sets it`s as hard as rock! and there`s no shrinkage if done correctly either, you only need a very tiny amount also and it`s very easy to make or buy and filthy cheap too

 

if your ingredients are a fine mesh powder and intimately mixed a little pinch of dextrin and a few drops of water and you`re ready to cast and compress all you like, it just requires a little drying time over the candy type, but is infinately safer and less chance of air pockets that create uneven burning or even a case rupture.

 

a note about the drying time, if you don`t have the patience to do this properly without cutting corners, you`ve no business making rockets in the first place!

[[w00t]]

i was experimenting a bit today... so this is what i did

 

------

100grams - 1 kno3 : 1sugar

 

40grams - Iron Oxide (atleast i think thats what i made using salt water, nail and DC electricity, didnt filter anything, i just emptyed out most of the clear liquid and then boiled the rest - final colour was dark brown, not even sure that the nail was iron either...)

 

20grams - Magnelium (filed down from metal shapeners)

 

----- so i mixed them well, got 1 teaspoon of the mixture in a metal pan and added a few drops of water to the mixture. Then i let it sit under flames for 2 minutes with constant stiring. Then when it was done, i left it to harden a bit and rolled it up in paper and lit it up.. it went from one side of my backyard to the other side (70metres??)

 

i will try a another one aimed at the sky tommarow

[YT2095]

other than being REALLY Sloppy, and me not beleiving that it actualy Flew at all, your stoichometry is totaly wrong, and mixing magnalium with a nitrate in water and then heating is plain old Fool hardy!

 

Never mix metal powders with nitrates unless you stabilise the mix with a little boric acid, it`ll create dangerous amine complexes that can ignite without warning and in some cases even detonate, that`s right! not Explode but actualy Detonate!

 

I`m NOT impressed

[[w00t]]

i understand what your saying and i was well aware of that,and i have made bunch of previous tests.

 

it probably sounds sloppy, but im a person that has a sht load of time so i tent to do pointless things

[YT2095]

']i understand what your saying and i was well aware of that' date='as i have made bunch of pervious tests.

 

 

btw. im not sloppy, i have a habbit of making it sound like that[/quote']

 

then I`ll ask you Kindly, that in Future when you`re here and posting such things, Try to up the Quality of your posts above that of your last few.

there are people here that have asked for Help, and it`s Our responsibility to Provide that help as accurately and as specificaly as we possibly can.

 

More effort please!

[Halash]

i have heard that u actually need an open flame or a red hot metal fuse to start it.....

[[w00t]]

ok i did a test today.

 

i added more aluminium to the mixture, if u dont mine..

 

anyway i melted it and i rolled it up in paper (about 1 teaspoon worth of mixture) i lit it outside and it span about 6 or 7 times, then it went in the air, over my house and landed 100 metres away..

[YT2095]

I`ve asked you nicely about your post quality and keeping its contents Factual.

 

I`ll Not ask again!

[[w00t]]

ok this mixture works very very good

 

i did this today.. just 30minutes ago

 

40grams potassium + 25grams sugar

after that, put 1/4 of teapoon of Iron Oxide and mix it

 

 

this worked much better than the other one, asoon and it lit up, i didnt have time to run away, it just went streight in the air for arround 3 seconds and it disapeared, very fast too