Fire Fighting Proposal

[alt_f13]

How would a 15 thousand pound "Daisy Cutter" bomb affect an out-of-control wild fire?

 

Would the explosion destroy or engourage it?

 

This might be a cheaper, faster way of fighting the fires of BC and the WA and Oregon States.

[Loki]

I'm probably being ignorant, but what do you mean by a daisy cutter bomb?

[Glider]

A daisy cutter would probably render firefighting pointless, as there would be nothing left to save. A fuel-air bomb might create the right conditions to 'blow out' a fire though, if it was used as an air burst.

[alt_f13]

Originally posted by Glider

A daisy cutter would probably render firefighting pointless, as there would be nothing left to save. A fuel-air bomb might create the right conditions to 'blow out' a fire though, if it was used as an air burst.

 

That is exactly what I was thinking. If set off near the edge of a forest fire, but within it, it might just clear a section too large for the fire to cross, while putting much of it out.

 

I think this sort of tactic is the answer to our firefighting problems.

[YT2095]

something similar to "dragon eggs" would prbably be a little more effective and less devastating, with the advantage that a massive area could be covered and well defined lines cut.

something marble sized each for grass type fires and match head sided for thicker woods.

[IMI]

I am not sure but I want to say I've heard of a bomb that removes the oxygen from an area for up to 3 or 4 minutes.

[YT2095]

3 or 4 minutes!, that`s gotta be a NUKE! infact a nuke blast wave wont do that for more than 2 mins at 10m tons! and that aint even an O2 "blackout" thats pressure differential on intitial and echo shockwaves (implode).

 

IMI. are you sure it`s just a "bomb" and not something a little more sophisticated at all? maybe some sort of explosive dispersal mechanism perhaps?

[IMI]

Maybe it's a Halon bomb or something. Not entirely sure.

[YT2095]

aha! maybe you`r thinking of secondary explosives with a low OB (oxygen ballance) perhaps, as halon in an explosive would reform into it constituany parts and the CH groups are flammable and halides are poisonous.

perhaps under low ambient wind conditions explosives such as TCAP, HMTD, TNT, MEKP etc... could be used, because of their low OD and the DV (detonation velocity) is a bonus too for the vacume effect, and the byproducts are mostly CO CO2 and N.

only problem is... with exception of TNT , the others are primary explosives and MAY datonate from impact after the fall from a helicopter and are TOO unstable in quantity to carry (vibrations) and TNT is a secondary explosive and will just burn without a det-cap

I`ll stick to "dragons eggs"

 

good idea and right thinking though )

[IMI]

I'm fairly certain that I have read about a bomb that somehow removes the oxygen from an area for at least a couple minutes. I'm sure it would be some type of dispersal device. I'll try find some info on it.

[YT2095]

yeah, I`de have to go with that too, as blast alone would have be enormous!!!!!

the other option is as I mentioned above, something with a low OB, but either case would require a low wind so as not to move the gasses too much before they could work. and from what I can gather, the fire alone creates it`s own winds, and so MAY negate both possibilities

[IMI]

YT2095 said in post #11 :

yeah, I`de have to go with that too, as blast alone would have be enormous!!!!!

the other option is as I mentioned above, something with a low OB, but either case would require a low wind so as not to move the gasses too much before they could work. and from what I can gather, the fire alone creates it`s own winds, and so MAY negate both possibilities

 

I heard, just this morning on CNN, that winds can carry ambers from forest fires, that can themselves start more fires, up to a mile away. You would have to blow too much up to prevent that with explosives alone.

[YT2095]

absolutely!!! and the updrafts/currents are tremendously powerfull

the dragon eggs work as an explosive/fire retardant in the same micro second. YES it`s a thermite, but not the sort that folk read about on these stupid sites, it`s an exotic thermite that after reaching a certain temp will explode with incredible velocity! spreading a NON flammable layer of metal/metal oxides over the surrounding area and before anyone says that metals are BAD for plants, think again! and read the side of a box of general plant food then count the metals/minerals in it

the ones that DON`T eplode would simply dissolve in the rain over a few seasons, the ons that do will blast an area around it making fire NULL and leave a coating that`s fire retardant

a dragon egg the size of a pin head will OBLITERATE a cigarette end! (I`ve done it) so thumb nail size should clear an area at least a foot around and spread it`s oxides well over 20 foot per ball! )

picture them 6 inches appart in a blaze! )))))))

[alt_f13]

Do you fellas think explosives are viable solution, am I on to something here? If someone with background in this sort of thing was willing to back me, I would propose this to a few people and perhaps get a study going.

 

 

The massive forest fires in North America are devastating the western region and causing all sorts of havoc. I'm not sure how many towns have been destroyed, but even one is too many.

 

Perhaps a new fire fighting solution would come too late for the current crisis, but I'm all about the advancement of society.

 

So..?

[Sayonara]

IMI said in post #10 :

I'm fairly certain that I have read about a bomb that somehow removes the oxygen from an area for at least a couple minutes. I'm sure it would be some type of dispersal device. I'll try find some info on it.

Daisy cutter explosions pull in everything in a huge radius, including the air.

[IMI]

It would seem that a thermobaric device creates a rather large temporary vacuum but it's searing heat would probably be counter-productive to putting out fires

 

I would imagine that possibilities such as these have already been examined for this application. They do use explosives, at times, to extinguish such fires as oil rigs/pipelines.

[Loki]

If a fire were devastating enough something like this could be used as a last resort. But there has to be many other factors to be taken into consideration, and I'm sure there's one factor waiting there to deem this method unusable.

[Dudde]

people won't want to bomb their own lands? bombs are expensive? George bush is the president?

[Glider]

Sayonara³ said in post #15 :

Daisy cutter explosions pull in everything in a huge radius, including the air.

 

This is the function of fuel-air bombs too. These are thermobaric explosive devices designed to burn the air itself. They are often known as 'vacuum bombs' and have an output comparable to a low yield nuclear device (but without the fallout). These are the devices that were used in Afghanestan to suck the air out of caves and kill the occupants.

[Sayonara]

And in "Outbreak"

[YT2095]

FAE`s are ok to snuff peolpe out

low OB desensitised primararies would be even better in low wind conditions.

Loki, Silver Iodide cloud seeding would also in certain circumstances be a viable idea also.

alt_f13 explosives of the CORRECT type would be perfectly viable route to take as well, but each fire and fire type must be also be judged by it`s own "merits" and prevailing conditions... there is no ONE single answer. many times a combination of ideas are needed to secure a possitive result, and maybe the never the same combination twice

[Glider]

Sayonara³ said in post #20 :

And in "Outbreak"

Hehe..yeah, and in 'Outbreak'. Cool film!

[YT2095]

what`s this "Outbreak" thing about? and don`t say a film or acne rellated )

 

Glider, a Thermobaric device or ANY sort of device that alter the barometric pressure into the nagative would be usefull, however it would have to be for a sustained period of time (cretainly more than a few minutes for hardwood fires) maybe great for grass fires with a ground crew ready to move in to catch the remainders.

but even a low yeild nuke wouldn`t shift the volume air neccesary for a large fire, and certainly not for long enough, I still recon something akin to "Dragon eggs" would be the best way for most fires, used in conjunction with traditional methods.

[alt_f13]

Well, I suggest large bombs because of the size of the area they affect. Dragon eggs would take about the same ammount of time and manpower to deliver as the traditional means of firefighting, would they not?

[Glider]

YT2095 said in post #23 :

what`s this "Outbreak" thing about? and don`t say a film or acne rellated )

Well, it is a film . Briefly, it's about a virulent and lethal virus that gets released into the US through the illegal import of an infected monkey. Long story short, an entire town gets infected, and there is a race between the good guys (Dustin Hoffman et al.) to find a cure, and the bad guy (admirably played by Donald Sutherland) who wants to drop a FAE and wipe out the whole town.

 

Glider, a Thermobaric device or ANY sort of device that alter the barometric pressure into the nagative would be usefull, however it would have to be for a sustained period of time (cretainly more than a few minutes for hardwood fires) maybe great for grass fires with a ground crew ready to move in to catch the remainders.

but even a low yeild nuke wouldn`t shift the volume air neccesary for a large fire, and certainly not for long enough, I still recon something akin to "Dragon eggs" would be the best way for most fires, used in conjunction with traditional methods.

No, the principle of an explosive used to 'blow out' a fire (as used on oil fires) wouldn't work on a forest fire. It might, as you say, work on a grass fire, but I was thinking that given the tremendous pressure wave and subsequent vacuum, it might be effective if used on the periphery to create a break. However, with FAEs, there is a risk; sometimes they don't detonate, but burn (rapidly, but still not a detonation), which would just make things a whole lot worse.