Euthenasia

[Kettle]

[Off topic]Indeed Glider - one of the things that really gets my blood boiling this days are the "civil liberties" and "human rights" groups who actually protect criminals - what about my right to live in my house without fear of being burgled and Christ knows what else, and having the law on my side if I am a victim of crime. The justice system in this country is severely weighted in favour of the criminal - the law should be there to protect law-abiding peeps like myself, not rapists, burglars, muggers etc.[/off topic]

 

Sorry - rant over

[BeckyK]

I started a thread about this that should be placed in here. I will post in here and the mods can delete my other thread if they would like

 

I am a registered nurse and I work in a Palliative care unit. We have patients that come stay with us until they die and have a comfortable death. Yes, some people's diseases do give them a relatively comfortable end... Others vomit blood, suffer amazing amounts of pain, and suffer for weeks and they know they are dying. I can't explain to you the feeling you get when someone is pleading with you to do something for them and help them die. They know they are dying, we know they are dying and all we can do is pump them with morphine, come in and turn them every 2 hrs so they don't get bedsores, and wait. The families camp in the unit for sometimes weeks waiting with their loved ones. Some people get bedsores before they come in and their feet practically rot off, it smells, and they hurt. Their body eventually goes septic and they die or the cancer they have takes over.

We have another patient who is 83 and had cancer of the larynx. He had it removed and has a trach and a feeding tube. He's been in the hospital for 3 years. He gets washed everyday, turned every 2 hrs and feedings through his feeding tube 4 times a day. He gets an enema every 3 days. Suctioned every hour. He can't communicate, he can't move his limbs (he had a stroke too) and he can't make the decision to stop eating and die. We have been waiting for the past 3 years for the tumor in his chest to block off his airway. He cries about once a week (that we know of). To me, no matter what he did in his life, he's paid for it in the past 3 years. I wish he could die with dignity.

I feel that if someone chooses to die, they should be granted that wish if they are sick and there is no hope. I think that people are not allowed to die because of the Christian viewpoint that they will go to hell. I personally don't think it's fair and that it is their life and their right to choose life or death.

[sepultallica]

Above post.

 

that definately sucks. can you really deny someone their request in that instance? is it still immoral to assist someone to kill themselves when you see this kind suffering?

[Glider]

Another situation is a patient we have named ****

This is a pseudonym, right?

[YT2095]

Electing to die is quite natural anyway, cats do it instinctively as do quite a few other animals, they know thier F**ked and useless to the collective and so wander off, find a nice place alone without disturbance and just die alone peacefully

 

Personaly, I`de go that way too!

[sepultallica]

Electing to die is quite natural anyway' date=' cats do it instinctively as do quite a few other animals, they know thier F**ked and useless to the collective and so wander off, find a nice place alone without disturbance and just die alone peacefully

 

Personaly, I`de go that way too![/quote']

 

 

imagine if things were that way, where we could come and go as we pleased. that would be the ultimate form of democracy and freedom. dont know if id agree with that that though.

[YT2095]

I`m under no illusion that my stance on this is ideological, but the point is, electing to die isn`t unnatural and done all the time "in the wild", so I`ve got no issue with someone that KNOWS their F**ked and just wants to leave. to me it makes perfect sense.

I don`t think I`de go the way that some of them do, but who knows, I`m sure NON of them WANT to go in the way they`re heading, and so to give them that dignity and a final choice (they don`t have many choices lets be honest!) is a suitable and honourable decision, it`s hardly what you`de call "Suicide"

[Glider]

Electing to die is quite natural anyway' date=' cats do it instinctively as do quite a few other animals, they know thier F**ked and useless to the collective and so wander off, find a nice place alone without disturbance and just die alone peacefully

 

Personaly, I`de go that way too![/quote']

 

Cats don't live in a collective. They're solitary animals, except lions. When a lion gets old or very ill, it's chased out by the pride, and then it starves to death, unless it can find easy prey, like humans or carrion.

 

The story of animals finding a 'special' place to die is a myth. If they're very ill, they'll try to find a quiet, safe place where they won't be disturbed so they can recover. If they're not ill, but just old, they usually end up starving, either because they can't hunt, or through general inability to find or eat food (e.g. worn teeth), in which case they just drop where they are when they run out of energy.

[BeckyK]

His name isn't the one I had listed, but I will edit it so people don't wonder...

[Glider]

Good. Ta very much

[BeckyK]

And yet we provide heart/lung transplants, liver transplants, dialysis for those with renal failure. We ventilate those who cannot breathe unaided and transfuse those who have lost too much blood to live. Isn't this interfering with the principle "when you're supposed to die, you die"?

 

The basic tenet of medicine is "First, do no harm" (an adaptation of one of the writings of Hippocrates). However, in many ways, I think medicine has lost its way, and has conceptualised death as 'the enemy'. This is foolish. Death is inevitable. Moreover, it is necessary. Consider the situation if we ever managed to defeat it...immortality would be catastrophic! If we could prevent death in all cases, we would also have to prevent birth!

 

No. Death is not the enemy. The true enemy is suffering. In cases of severe and intractable suffering, especially as a result of a terminal condition, isn't denying that person an easy and dignified death causing harm? Do we have the right to say "no...I'm sorry you are suffering so badly, but you must live with it, because it's against our principles to help you"?

 

I agree with you! Most Drs I work with in Palliative care do know that they are just to provide the service of keeping their patients comfortable, but every once in awhile, before they turn into actual palliative care patients, they are so stubborn and cause suffering for a few days or weeks before they finally realize that they aren't God. It's almost like an ego thing, they want to save everyone. It sounds noble, but sometimes it's just time to die, even if the patient is only 50.