prompts and weird programs ...

[vrus]

Can someone tell me what prompt is? A person I know told me that it has something to do with saving everything that has been typed in a computer... I don't believe this, as the computer can't possibly hold all this data...

 

So I am curious to know what exactly it is. I know it has something to do with MS-DOS.

 

Also if such a program that saves everything typed does exist or saves all the actions taken, what would it be and how can it be altered ?

 

In case you're wondering, no im not in trouble or anything..

 

Thnx.

 

Plus, its my birthday today...

[RyanJ]

Can someone tell me what prompt is? A person I know told me that it has something to do with saving everything that has been typed in a computer... I don't believe this' date=' as the computer can't possibly hold all this data...

 

So I am curious to know what exactly it is. I know it has something to do with MS-DOS.

 

Also if such a program that saves everything typed does exist or saves all the actions taken, what would it be and how can it be altered ?

 

In case you're wondering, no im not in trouble or anything..

 

Thnx.

 

Plus, its my birthday today... [/quote']

 

Prompt as in Command prompt? Your friend told you a load of crap

 

Start >> Run >> cmd.exe is how you get to command.

 

In Win98 its:

 

Start >> Run >> command.com

 

There are programs that store (log) the text you use but they don't normally have any good uses except for spying on people and they are called keyloggers. These just "lock" onto the the keyboard signals and intercept them letting people know what you've been doing.

 

Cheers,

 

Ryan Jones

[Phi for All]

AFAIK, beyond what RyanJ said, a prompt is just the computer talking to you. Among other things, a prompt may ask for a password, it may warn that you're leaving a secure area, or it could tell you it can't find what you're looking for. In MS-DOS it's just an internal command that can do many things but I don't believe storing all input is one of them

 

It has nothing to do with logging all information the computer has ever had typed into it. Your friend is having you on.

 

And Happy Birthday, vrus!

[5614]

Happy Birthday!

 

Otherwise, yeah, what they (above) said!

 

A prompt is the computer asking for an input, ie. What's the password? Are you sure you want to log off (or shut down etc.)?

 

Command prompt is like DOS but it runs within Windows. By going

Start Menu > run > type: cmd

you can access it, it's just like DOS.

 

As for recording keyboards strokes, that's called a keylogger. There are 2 sorts, software and hardware.

 

A software keylogger is a program running in the background which records all the key strokes on the keyboard (and often the program into which the keys are type). So an example output might be:

Typed into Internet Explorer; http://www.scienceforums.net/forums/showthread.php?t=16188

Happy Birthday vrus

 

A harware keylogger is a physical thing sitting between the keyboard and the computer. So instead of plugging the keyboard into the computer what you have is the keyboard plugged into the keylogger which is plugged into the computer. This way all data goes through the keylogger which can record all of the data going through it.

 

I've never worked with hardware keyloggers, whilst I know they generally store a .txt file on the keylogger itself (it can store data on itself like a USB key) I don't know if it records the program into which the data is typed. And besides, it would probably vary between different keyloggers anyway!

[vrus]

Happy Birthday!

 

Thnx 5614..

 

And happy birthday vrus.

 

Thnx again Phi.

 

And besides people, it wasn't a friend, just someone i know, who must have some trouble ! I was just interested in some background info.!

 

And RyanJ I know how to open MS-DOS

[RyanJ]

I've never worked with hardware keyloggers' date=' whilst I know they generally store a .txt file on the keylogger itself (it can store data on itself like a USB key) I don't know if it records the program into which the data is typed. And besides, it would probably vary between different keyloggers anyway![/quote']

 

Uhum, I have.

 

They can be quite powerful and all the ones I ahve made and or worked with have recorded the programs and even the detail to which sites they went to, what they put in the forms etc.

 

They are normally stored in a file on the hard drive or a hidden file located somewhere on one of your drives, the file normally has a random name and has a random path chosen by the program

 

Don't ask me to go into any more detail because it starts to get illegal to talk about these after this point, I'm just on eht edge of what I am premitted to say

 

And sorry vrus, I meant to say happy birthday but I had a wierd error when I tried to edit my posts on this thread!

 

Cheers,

 

Ryan Jones

[5614]

It isn't technically DOS because DOS is an OS (Operating System). For it to be true DOS you cannot be running Windows at the same time. Hence the cmd thingy is often referred to as command prompt, ie. it prompts/asks for a command. cmd could also be called a DOS emulator as it emulates DOS (duh, state the obvious!)

 

[edit] RyanJ: keyloggers aren't in anyway illegal, well, it depends on how you used them. If you were using it to steal the source code for a new game coming out then it's technically illegal! But you don't need to tell us that's what you were using it for, you can pretend you were innocently using it on your own computer and then tell us what you found, all perfectly legal.

 

I've seen hardware keyloggers which store the log file on flash memory on the keylogger itself, I guess there's variation. Maybe with the recent growth of flash drives and USB keys etc. keyloggers with onboard memory storeage has become more popular.

[RyanJ]

It isn't technically DOS because DOS is an OS (Operating System). For it to be true DOS you cannot be running Windows at the same time. Hence the cmd thingy is often referred to as command prompt' date=' ie. it prompts/asks for a command. cmd could also be called a DOS emulator as it emulates DOS (duh, state the obvious!)

 

[edit'] RyanJ: keyloggers aren't in anyway illegal, well, it depends on how you used them.

 

Very true but the reason I know about this is related to security testing hence I am forbidden to say any more despite all the informaiton I would like to give I can't (Along with hacking, viruses, spyware and such...)

 

I actually know of a few keyloggers that write to the boot sector, those are the ultimate ones though and your never likley to come accross them.

 

As for USB keyloggers they are not very common yet but they are getting more advanced fast! Problem is relating too how the USB works in conjunction with the keyboard-software interface - makes things a little more complex

 

Cheers,

 

Ryan Jones

[5614]

I wasn't really referring to USB keyloggers... I was saying how you know with all these USB keys/pens (whatever you call them) around which have an onboard flash memory... well now standard keyloggers can have the same type of onboard flash memory.

 

I was pointing a similarity in data storage method not the port used.

 

Data stored in the boot sector is always a high aim for keyloggers/malware etc.

[RyanJ]

I wasn't really referring to USB keyloggers... I was saying how you know with all these USB keys/pens (whatever you call them) around which have an onboard flash memory... well now standard keyloggers can have the same type of onboard flash memory.

 

I was pointing a similarity in data storage method not the port used.

 

OOPs' date=' sorry. In that case yes your right - its quite easy to do

 

Data stored in the boot sector is always a high aim for keyloggers/malware etc.

 

Fortunatly its not easy to do as the boot sector is treated as a hidden part of the hard drive, irt is accessible but only if you know quite a bit about how Windows works fortunatly because if something gets on that part it cna be a pain to remove!

 

Cheers,

 

Ryan Jones

[5614]

That's why it is a high aim!!! It's possible but hard to do.

 

Malware that writes data to the boot sector is the kind of malware that can survive formats and they really are nasty buggers!

 

Storing a keylog in the boot sector is quite extreme, I'd def agree with RyanJ when he says "those are the ultimate ones though and your never likley to come accross them."

[RyanJ]

That's why it is a high aim!!! It's possible but hard to do.

 

Malware that writes data to the boot sector is the kind of malware that can survive formats and they really are nasty buggers!

 

Storing a keylog in the boot sector is quite extreme' date=' I'd def agree with RyanJ when he says "[i']those are the ultimate ones though and your never likley to come accross them.[/i]"

 

I've only ever come accross two of those (None in the wild), they were quite large too because of the compexity of the task.

In a way the boot sector is more read only than anything else so its almost impossible to do and a pain in the head to undo.

 

Mind you its not the worst type I've seen though... I've actually seen the code for ones that are capable of flashing ROM and imprinting the logs there. These are way beond anyhting you'll ever see and I cna garantee you that...

 

I very much doubt that you will ever see a boot sector one - infact I cna almost garantee that you will not. Though Microcrap intends to include one in its next windows version to monitor what people are doing to stop illegal programs and the like... good luck, I know where it is and I'll be removing it from mine as soon as I get the new test version!

 

Cheers,

 

Ryan Jones

[5614]

Does Vista (I still think Longhorn was a better name!) has a hardware or software keylogger?

 

I hadn't heard that. Can you give a source (like some news article backing up what you said) and removal detials?

[RyanJ]

Does Vista (I still think Longhorn was a better name!) has a hardware or software keylogger?

 

It actually supposed to have a software one but I'm shure the EU won't like it as it violates privacy so it probably won't even be in anything but the test versions. the reason its in the test version seems to be they are testing out various security ideas most of which will be broken days after the release...

 

I hadn't heard that. Can you give a source (like some news article backing up what you said) and removal detials?

 

Can't give you a source other than official microsoft security testing documentation. Your not even supposed to know about it... Don't ask me to go into any more detail because I can't, I don't want trouble (hope you undestand!)

 

As for removing like I said its not even going to get into the full release, if it does I'll let you know about it

 

Cheers,

 

Ryan Jones

[5614]

Mate, you telling me you want me to actually read the documentation!?? I spose if it comes out in the final version then I'll hear about it all over the place.

 

I personally doubt I'm going to get Vista. I'm perfectly happy with XP and have no need/want to change.

[RyanJ]

Mate' date=' you telling me you want me to actually read the documentation!?? I spose if it comes out in the final version then I'll hear about it all over the place.

 

I personally doubt I'm going to get Vista. I'm perfectly happy with XP and have no need/want to change.[/quote']

 

The documentation I have is not the normall one, its the security version (Extra details in it that you don't get in the real one).

 

I'm using Win98 SE now but as soon as I put Liniux on disk thats going in - I hate what Microcrap did to Windows above ME... to put it bluntly they runied it. I'd use XP is they still had DOS with it! I can get a free copy of any of the OS's (benefit of working for the maker ) but I'm happy with what I have

 

Cheers,

 

Ryan Jones

[5614]

I can get a free copy of any of the OS's

Well if you wanted to get me 2 copies of winXP Prof

 

And you work for MS? But you're still at school... is this a holiday or weekend job? How did you get to work for MS in the first place?

[RyanJ]

Well if you wanted to get me 2 copies of winXP Prof

 

And you work for MS? But you're still at school... is this a holiday or weekend job? How did you get to work for MS in the first place?

 

I took a computer security course with them (Took 2 years but it was worth every second, lots of hacking and the like involved) and got in that way by passing with one of the highest scores they have had (I was 4th out of all the people who have done the test, a guy I was in the course with came first ). I may still be at school but I have a lot of free time so I find holes in their software - what better way to send my day when I'm not reading or playing with an experiment!

Pay is not bad and knowing Windows inside and out gets its uses especially annoying the hell out of the school administrator by taking over the network... I've done this when he tried to annoy me by taking control of the computer when I'm using it. The guy is annoying as hell and I have more than enough programs on my file to block the proxy and the like... again just to annoy him because he can't remove them due to a flaw in Windows securty... I just love annoying him it brings me great joy!

 

As for getting you two copies - your limited to 1 per user, sorry

 

Cheers,

 

Ryan Jones

[TheGeek]

when you say you got one of the highest scores on the exam, what exam is this?

[CanadaAotS]

the computer security course he took with microsoft.

[TheGeek]

if i wana work with ms and i am in my junior year at high school what do i do?

[RyanJ]

if i wana work with ms and i am in my junior year at high school what do i do?

 

Contact them about a security course, if you do good then they will probably enlist you

 

Cheers,

 

Ryan Jones

[vrus]

So how much memory could these hardware keyloggers store on average ? Everything from the time you started ur pc the first time ? Formatting affects them ?

[Dave]

You can estimate it.

 

Consider that one keystroke will take up precisely 1 byte, and say that the average typing rate is about 35 wpm (quite fast). The average word in the English language is about 5.7 characters in length (can't remember where I got this one, but it's about reasonable). So if you were to type 35 wpm you'd be consuming about 200 characters per minute which translates to 200 bytes/min.

 

So, if you had a 512mb flash drive onto which you stored the information, then you'd be able to log everything a person typed into a computer for the next 2.68 million seconds - roughly equivalent to 745 hours or 31 days. And that's if the person was typing continuously for that amount of time

 

The answer is: quite a lot

[RyanJ]

The answer is: quite a lot

 

Showing your math skills there! Yes these can take up a lot of memory but right now (most) actually use hard drive space and in a way act like an extension to vitual memory although its a more permenant form thereof. So there is practially unlimited space that it will never fill, how the people get the files from your computer to theirs is another matter altogether though. Thats where most anti-spyware programs catch the offending programs out

 

Cheers,

 

Ryan Jones