Numbers are the fundamental elementary particles

[oldtobor]

Are any 2 electrons exactly equal in all possible mathematical sense ? Is this really conceivable and possible ? I find it hard to imagine 2 electrons that are exactly equal as if they were 2 exactly equal numbers. So electrons would end up being pure mathematical entities-abstractions. Maybe quantum indetermination and virtual particles and feynman diagrams of electrons self interacting make it so that NO TWO ELECTRONS ARE REALLY EVER EXACTLY EQUAL.... to any decimal place.

 

No 2 electrons are exactly equal because they have different positions in space and undergo slightly different influences by their surrounding environment. So they have slightly different coordinates, speed, direction etc. Also they are surrounded by a unique and ever changing cloud of virtual particles popping up out of nowhere and disappearing constantly changing the energy configuration surrounding the electron as compared to another. If you could see these on a graph they would be very different. A better question is if the law of conservation of Energy is an approximation or exact to an infinte degree (or infinite number of decimal points). Quantum principles say that :

 

(E1-E0)X(T1-T0)=h (planck) means that any energy even extremely high can pop up out of nowhere as long as it is for a short enough time. I wonder if some energy can simply disappear and appear meaning that Energy conservation is not an exact absolute law. Some particle reactions may simply loose some energy or gain some without any reason at all because the law of conservation of energy is just an approximation. This would solve the riddle of dark matter and dark energy.

 

If the law of conservation of Energy was exact to any decimal number and absolutely true, this would mean that physics-matter and the universe are truly a mathematical abstraction, a pure mathematical / conceptual object. This would be very strange indeed. The law of conservation of energy must break down somewhere in some way, it can't be infinitely precise.

 

In the macroscopic world it is impossible to find any 2 objects that are exactly the same as are elementary particles. I think this is the aspect that is being addressed. You may have any 2 objects, 2 pentiums or 2 car tires or even 2 bacteria and they will be different in the sense that there are some imperfections or details that make them different. It seems natural that it be so. But when you go down to the "microscopic" level say already at molecules, things become exactly the same. You can find 2 molecules that are exactly the same, the individual imperfections of the macroscopic world that identify macroscopic objects uniquely disappear. In this somewhat "aesthetic-metaphysical" sense, elementary particles seem to coincide with pure mathematical entities.

 

Actually come to think about it, particles such as an electrons or even more so photons have alot of metaphysical properties in common with numbers. They are both universal, they are interchangeable, they are indistinguishable, they are everywhere. So maybe we should add some physical properties to numbers and devise a new corresponding mathematics, like a number shall also have coordinates, a spin, an angular momentum etc. That would be an interesting metaphysical theory. And adding properties to numbers, you could add an infinite amount of new properties and devise a mathematics with all kinds of new constraints and results (maybe call it psychedelic math).

 

Anyways the bottom line is that if elementary particles are pure "mathematical entities", than the REAL ELEMENTARY PARTICLES ARE NUMBERS. So a virtual reality designed on a computer would be EVEN MORE REAL THAN OUR PHYSICAL REALITY because it is based on the manipulation of numbers which are even MORE FUNDAMENTAL THAN ELEMENTARY PARTICLES.

[nameta9]

 

In the macroscopic world it is impossible to find any 2 objects that are exactly the same as are elementary particles. I think this is the aspect that is being addressed. You may have any 2 objects' date=' 2 pentiums or 2 car tires or even 2 bacteria and they will be different in the sense that there are some imperfections or details that make them different. It seems natural that it be so. But when you go down to the "microscopic" level say already at molecules, things become exactly the same. You can find 2 molecules that are exactly the same, the individual imperfections of the macroscopic world that identify macroscopic objects uniquely disappear. [/quote']

 

Even if you have 2 perfect equivalent crystals, they would be slightly different because their modes of oscillation would not coincide exactly. They would have to be at absolute zero temperature, and even 2 electrons are not mathematically equal because their virtual particle clouds are slightly different. Maybe the real physical laws should be stated as two particles cannot be mathematically equivalent because quantum uncertainty makes them always slightly different.

[bascule]

I think what you're trying to say is that the universe is just a gigantic cellular automaton

[oldtobor]

MATTER - MATHEMATICS = QUANTUM UNCERTAINTY

 

So quantum fluctuation and uncertainty is what prevents matter/physics/universe from being a completely mathematical entity. But this uncertainty is defined mathematically. Planck's constant is a number and so is velocity of light... maybe there is a mathematical relationship between these 2 constants.

[Amod]

Anyways the bottom line is that if elementary particles are pure "mathematical entities", than the REAL ELEMENTARY PARTICLES ARE NUMBERS. So a virtual reality designed on a computer would be EVEN MORE REAL THAN OUR PHYSICAL REALITY because it is based on the manipulation of numbers which are even MORE FUNDAMENTAL THAN ELEMENTARY PARTICLES.

NUMBERS are really the fundamental particles.This sounds EXACTLY as one of my research works soon to be discussed with members of this forum dubbed

"NUMBERS THE FUNDAMENTAL PARAMETER OF TRUTH" directly under the Universal Brain Usage.

[the tree]

Oh dear, you've been endorsed by Amod. That's never good.

One of the things that affects any particle is where it lies in relation to other particles so I'd say that it is not possible for two particles to be identical for instance, if you had two identical crystals on your desk, along with some sheets of paper, a pen and a newtons cradle. Take any point on either of the cyrstals: it'll have a certain distance from the paper, the pen and the newtons cradle, there is obviously no way all these distances will be matched by the same point on the other cystal.

[ydoaPs]

part of the reason quantum teleportation works is because two electrons with the same properties are indistinguishable.

[Phi for All]

Actually come to think about it, particles such as an electrons or even more so photons have alot of metaphysical properties in common with numbers. They are both universal, they are interchangeable, they are indistinguishable, they are everywhere.

Is this what you use to explain posting simultaneously as oldtobor AND nameta9? What kind of masturbatory debate tactic is this? Please explain why I shouldn't ban both accounts since this is clearly against our policy.

[rising moon]

what about facts sub atom are not solid??

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Please stop digging up old threads and posting nonsenical replies.