Vegetable Oil rather than Gasoline?

[Mike Kovich]

I read, that you can use Vegetable Oil (they suggest that you do something like go to a Chinese Restaurant and ask for used oil) then using that rather than gasoline... http://www.mtv.com/thinkmtv/environment/renewable_fuel.jhtml

...does this work with all cars? So, can I just go to a restaurant, get the Vegetable Oil, then put it in my car? What are your thoughts?

[YT2095]

your link doesn`t seem to work anymore.

 

I` ve heard it can be used in deisel engines with a little modification to the carbs but not for petrol (gasoline) engines, it`s simply not volatile enough.

[DV8 2XL]

From a press release published July 7th by Cornell University:

 

Turning plants such as corn, soybeans and sunflowers into fuel uses much more energy than the resulting ethanol or biodiesel generates, according to a new Cornell University and University of California-Berkeley study.

 

"There is just no energy benefit to using plant biomass for liquid fuel," says David Pimentel, professor of ecology and agriculture at Cornell. "These strategies are not sustainable."

 

Pimentel and Tad W. Patzek, professor of civil and environmental engineering at Berkeley, conducted a detailed analysis of the energy input-yield ratios of producing ethanol from corn, switch grass and wood biomass as well as for producing biodiesel from soybean and sunflower plants. Their report is published in Natural Resources Research (Vol. 14:1, 65-76).

 

In terms of energy output compared with energy input for ethanol production, the study found that:

 

 

* corn requires 29 percent more fossil energy than the fuel produced;

 

* switch grass requires 45 percent more fossil energy than the fuel produced;

 

and

 

*wood biomass requires 57 percent more fossil energy than the fuel produced.

 

In terms of energy output compared with the energy input for biodiesel production, the study found that:

 

*soybean plants requires 27 percent more fossil energy than the fuel produced,

 

and

 

*sunflower plants requires 118 percent more fossil energy than the fuel produced.

 

In assessing inputs, the researchers considered such factors as the energy used in producing the crop (including production of pesticides and fertilizer, running farm machinery and irrigating, grinding and transporting the crop) and in fermenting/distilling the ethanol from the water mix. Although additional costs are incurred, such as federal and state subsidies that are passed on to consumers and the costs associated with environmental pollution or degradation, these figures were not included in the analysis.

"The United State desperately needs a liquid fuel replacement for oil in the near future," says Pimentel, "but producing ethanol or biodiesel from plant biomass is going down the wrong road, because you use more energy to produce these fuels than you get out from the combustion of these products."

 

Although Pimentel advocates the use of burning biomass to produce thermal energy (to heat homes, for example), he deplores the use of biomass for liquid fuel. "The government spends more than $3 billion a year to subsidize ethanol production when it does not provide a net energy balance or gain, is not a renewable energy source or an economical fuel. Further, its production and use contribute to air, water and soil pollution and global warming," Pimentel says. He points out that the vast majority of the subsidies do not go to farmers but to large ethanol-producing corporations.

 

"Ethanol production in the United States does not benefit the nation's energy security, its agriculture, economy or the environment," says Pimentel. "Ethanol production requires large fossil energy input, and therefore, it is contributing to oil and natural gas imports and U.S. deficits."

[Bluenoise]

The only way this will come into use is if gas prices reach a certain threshold. It's not really that much better for the environment. It still produces lots of CO2. Which is what's going to cause us problems. The only really sustanable solution is hydrogen. There are just a few technological hurdles that need to be adressed first.

[Pleiades]

Vegetable oil can NOT be used in a gasoline engine. A gasoline engine can run on a gasoline/ethanol mixture, but must be modified slightly to use high concentrations of ethanol.

 

Vegetable oil can be used in Diesel engines; the original diesel engine ran on peanut oil. In order to get vegetable oil to work in a diesel engine, the engine usually needs to be modified to preheat the oil, additionally, there needs to be some sort of system to switch between petro-diesel and vegetable oil, because the engine will probably not start with cold veg oil in its system.

 

True biodiesel is made by processing vegetable oil using a process known as transesterification. It sounds complicated but can be done at home with methanol and sodium hydroxide, and some understanding of titration. Pure biodiesel can be used in any unmodified diesel engine and can be used in place of or mixed with regular petro-diesel.

 

As for the energy efficiency, I agree, it usually takes more energy to make ethanol than you can get from burning it. But for vegetable oil and biodiesel it’s a different story. Firstly, if you use waste vegetable oil that is going to be thrown away, then it becomes very economical to use it as a liquid fuel, even after paying for the chemicals to convert it to biodiesel. Using new vegetable oil grown specifically for fuel production is less efficient, but still feasible depending on who you talk to. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiesel#Efficiency_and_economic_arguments for more info.

 

Some general info on biodiesel caon also be found here: http://www.biodiesel.org/

[Helix]

There was just a show about biodeisel and the guy purified the biodeisel and pumped it into his car...got 40 m/pg.

[ecoli]

There was just a show about biodeisel and the guy purified the biodeisel and pumped it into his car...got 40 m/pg.

 

He must have had a deisel engine then. Regular engines won't run on vegetable oils.

[Pleiades]

That's it? 40 mpg? Our Peugeot Partner gets 38 mpg (highway) on regular diesel (6.18 liters per 100 km). Damn gas guzzling American cars. Diesel is marginally cheaper than gasoline here, but gasoline is about US$5.67/gallon (0.856 British pounds per liter)

[bascule]

Turning plants such as corn, soybeans and sunflowers into fuel uses much more energy than the resulting ethanol or biodiesel generates, according to a new Cornell University and University of California-Berkeley study.

 

Here's a study that says just the opposite:

 

The Energy Balance of Corn Ethanol: An Update (2002)

Report from USDA arguing that earlier reports indicating that ethanol was not an efficient use of energy are outdated. This analysis, which accounts for increased efficiency in the production of ethanol, concludes that corn ethanol has an energy output:input ratio of 1.34.

 

Estimating the Net Energy Balance of Corn Ethanol

Studies conducted since the late 1970's have estimated the net energy value of corn ethanol. However, variations in data and assumptions used among the studies have resulted in a wide range of estimates. This study identifies the factors causing this wide variation and develops a more consistent estimate. We conclude that the net energy value of corn ethanol has become positive in recent years due to technological advances in ethanol conversion and increased efficiency in farm production. We show that corn ethanol is energy efficient as indicated by an energy ratio of 1.24.

 

Studies concerning whether ethanol's energy inputs exceed its energy outputs can go either way. Suffice it to say it's a hotly contested area.

[YT2095]

here`s a further thought that just popped into my head and maybe worth some consideration,

since this reseraunt oil`s no good for gasoline/pertol cars, could it be converted into Engine Oil instead?

or another sort of lubricant? a bit similar to the old days when goose grease was used as an axle lube.

petrol isn`t the only large consumer of crude oil, but engine oil is too.

it`s not THE answer, but even if it reduces comsumption just a few percent it all mounts up

 

Just a thought.

[Pleiades]

You would have to change the oil fairly frequently then, vegetable oil breaks down when you heat it, not sure the free fatty acids are good for engines, lol. How hot does engine oil get in an engine anyway?

[YT2095]

only a few 100c at max, anti oxidants would be added naturaly, and gear oil doesn`t really get all that warm at all.

lets just say that in an emergency and your stranded in the middle of nowhere with no choice, that vegatable oil would last you long enough to get back safely even without modification.

[wgargan]

here`s a further thought that just popped into my head and maybe worth some consideration' date='

since this reseraunt oil`s no good for gasoline/pertol cars, could it be converted into Engine Oil instead?

or another sort of lubricant? a bit similar to the old days when goose grease was used as an axle lube.

petrol isn`t the only large consumer of crude oil, but engine oil is too.

it`s not THE answer, but even if it reduces comsumption just a few percent it all mounts up

 

Just a thought.[/quote']

 

castrol motor oil= castor bean oil

[-Demosthenes-]

It's important to note that vegetable oil is bad for a diesel engine, and is not the same as biodiesel.

 

Biodiesel is vegetable oil or animal fats that has been chemically changed through transesterification. This separates the stuff that you can use (methyl esters) from the stuff you can't use (glycerin).

 

You can use the biodiesel in any diesel engine by only replacing some inconsequential plastic tubing and putting in rubber tubing, or something like that. And sometimes you don't even have to do that.

[pink_trike]

"Unlike the more well-known fuel biodiesel, which is produced by chemically modifying vegetable oil in an expensive and time-consuming process, The Big Green Bus runs on unmodified vegetable oil, tossed out by the gallon every day at greasy spoons and fast food restaurants all over the country. To use the oil, the students added a second fuel tank to hold the vegetable oil. The bus starts on normal diesel fuel and uses the heat from the engine to warm the vegetable oil, lowering its viscosity and allowing it to flow through the engine."

 

Read the article:

 

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~vox/0405/0502/bus.html