Need Help settling big bang related argument.

[BruceDes]

A friend and I are having a argument related to the big bang, and are wondering if someone could help settle it.

 

My argument is that, the big bang,

A: Broke almost every law of physics.

B: Was so perfect as to create all the elements in less than a second, and enough matter to create stars/planets and eventually life, that there is no way that it could've happened by chance.

Because of this, I believe the big bang may prove the possible exsistence of an outside influence (possibly God).

 

However my friend argues that:

A pre-universe cannot have the laws that our exsisting one has, thus making anything possible, including the creation of energy from nothing.

 

Can anyone help settle this argument, or help fill in any gaps to help us settle it?

[ecoli]

A: Broke almost every law of physics.

 

This is not true...but where is your proof anyway?

 

B: Was so perfect as to create all the elements in less than a second' date=' and enough matter to create stars/planets and eventually life, that there is no way that it could've happened by chance.[/quote']

 

Just because an event relies on a very specific set of conditions doesn't mean it didn't happen.

 

Because of this, I believe the big bang may prove the possible exsistence of an outside influence (possibly God).

 

It may lend support, but it definately doesn't prove it.

 

However my friend argues that:

A pre-universe cannot have the laws that our exsisting one has, thus making anything possible, including the creation of energy from nothing.

 

The big bang theory does not even attempt to explain how the matter and energy originally got here, so in this case, you're both wrong.

[Sisyphus]

I have no idea what it would mean for the beginning of the universe to "happen by chance." For something to "happen," I thought that implied a before and an after. But there was no before. I also have no idea what you're talking about when you say "perfect." As opposed to what?

 

And it didn't "break" laws of physics. Things behaved differently because they were under wildly different conditions. If you want, you can say they obeyed different laws, but that's somewhat misleading. Physical laws changed, yes, but they changed for a physical reason, obeying themselves, as it were.

[[Tycho?]]

A friend and I are having a argument related to the big bang' date=' and are wondering if someone could help settle it.

 

My argument is that, the big bang,

A: Broke almost every law of physics.

B: Was so perfect as to create all the elements in less than a second, and enough matter to create stars/planets and eventually life, that there is no way that it could've happened by chance.

Because of this, I believe the big bang may prove the possible exsistence of an outside influence (possibly God).

 

However my friend argues that:

A pre-universe cannot have the laws that our exsisting one has, thus making anything possible, including the creation of energy from nothing.

 

Can anyone help settle this argument, or help fill in any gaps to help us settle it?[/quote']

 

Well you can't really break laws of physics. We dont know how to explain the big bang with current physics, this could be due to lack of data or an indication that our theories are incomplete.

 

All elements were not created in less than a second. It took 300 000 years for hydrogen to form, and not until stars formed and caused supernovae that the very heavy elements came about.

 

The rest is just opinion. Science doesn't really have anything to say about what caused the big bang or what came before, since we have no observable information from those times nor theories that can (as of now) be used to predict what happend. So chance, god, the easter bunny, who knows.

[Xyph]

Your friend (in arguing that the laws of our universe cannot be applied to the conditions that brought about the Big Bang) is more correct than yourself (and your argument that it could not possibly have happened by chance).

 

Describing the Big Bang as "perfect" is silly. It was an incredibly violent, chaotic, and messy explosion. Just because the end result appears relatively calm to us, who evolved in these conditions, doesn't mean we can make any sensible judgements on how well the Big Bang was "set up", as far as such things go...

[Jim]

Was so perfect as to create all the elements in less than a second' date=' and enough matter to create stars/planets and eventually life, that there is no way that it could've happened by chance.

[/quote']

 

As has been pointed out, the heavier elements were "cooked" by the stars.

 

Only intelligent beings in a universe where the conditions allowed intelligent life to arise could pose your question. As far as we know, there could have been billions and billions (to be Saganesq) of Big Bangs with only a small fraction having conditions right for intelligent life. Every intelligent species could make your argument, thinking they have some priviliged place in the cosmos.

 

For all I know, there is intelligent design. The universe might be created in a laboratory or in a computer ("In the beginning was the word and the word was God"). However, speculating that this is the case, or that a God created the initial bang, is not interesting to me without some evidence one way or another.