Magnetism/Static Electricity

[Martian]

Question:

 

Why, if an object is charged with static electricity, does it not attract to a magnet? If it has an excess of electrons, shouldn't it be attracted to the positive side of a magnet?

 

I'm working on a theory that states a bird can't fly south unless it first rubs its feet on a carpet.

[Klaynos]

Charged particles are not effected by stationary magnetic fields.

 

They ARE effected by moving magnetic fields. The force direction is specified by the left hand rule.

 

Have a read of:

 

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/magnetic/magfor.html

[timo]

I'm working on a theory that states a bird can't fly south unless it first rubs its feet on a carpet.

I´d hereby like to nominate you for the SFN "Creativity in Physics 2005"-award. You are possibly the first person in here I see, that manages to

a) post in the Modern/Theoretical Physics forum

b) and talk about electromagnetism

c) and speaks the magic words "I have a theory that.." (slight deviations as in your case also count).

but .....

d) doesn´claim that according to your theory, gravity is in fact electromagnetism.

 

Now, when we completely ignore the probably very weak forces created and the anatomy of the bird your idea actually doesn´t sounds as stupid as ... erm ... as it sounds:

As Klaynos pointed out, you have the Lorentz force F = qv x B with q being the charge the bird aquires when it rubs its feet, v its travelling velocity and B the magnetic field of earth. If the bird is flying directly north or directly south, there will be no force. But if it moves nonparallel to earth magnetic field, there will be a force as v x B doesn´t vanish anymore, then.

So the bird simply had to always fly in such a direction in which the force it feels on its feet vanishes. It will either get to the warm south or end up as a penguin teasing icebears.

[Martian]

Holy Monkey!

 

I meant that in complete humor, and there may actually be some credence to it???

 

Amazing! I love this forum.

 

Ok, I'm working on another theory that says monkeys are reincarnated evolutionists, what do you think?

 

I'm just kidding.

[Daecon]

I think monkeys are reincarnated creationists.

 

God is punishing them for being morons.

[Martian]

I thought it better to post a new question on this thread than to flood Scienceforums with new posts on my simple-minded questions.

 

In my idiocy I've thought to apply a rule in Electronics to Spacetime just to see what would happen.

 

In electronics: Conductance is the recipricol of resistance. IE, if there were no conductance, resistance would be infinite, if there were no resistance, conductance would be infinite.

 

In spacetime: If light did not encounter a resistance of a sort, then its speed would be infinite. (An assumption by posing that the same rules apply)

 

The speed of light is 299,792,458 meters per second.

 

1/c=3.3356409519815204957557671447492e-9

 

What could that number, the recipricol, stand for?

 

If you multiply it by two, you get a number not too far off from the beginning part (6.6712), of this infinitely-above-me equation, or the gravitational constant:

 

G=6.67390 x 10-11 m3/kg/s2

 

Just for fun, is there mathematical harmony to it somewhere?

 

 

 

I think monkeys are reincarnated creationists.

 

God is punishing them for being morons.

 

Hey, thats clever. Interestingly based on the same chance governing evolution, if you put a incredibly large number of monkeys in front of a keyboard, eventually they will successfully type at least one line from the bible. If you put the same number of monkeys in front of a chalkboard while in a coffee shop, they will successfully write at least two modern physics books. Thus, the path to truth is found in coffee, and StarBucks will soon replace religion, if the logic holds, which I'm sure it doesn't.

[Daecon]

The speed of light is 299' date='792,458 meters per second.

 

1/c=3.3356409519815204957557671447492e-9

 

What could that number, the recipricol, stand for?

[/quote']

 

It's a shame that number isn't ever-so-slightly lower and had a value of 3.14159265...

 

That would have been so much cooler!

[swansont]

Take the permeability and permittivity of free space, multiply and square. See what you get.

[[Tycho?]]

I´d hereby like to nominate you for the SFN "Creativity in Physics 2005"-award. You are possibly the first person in here I see' date=' that manages to

a) post in the Modern/Theoretical Physics forum

b) and talk about electromagnetism

c) and speaks the magic words "I have a theory that.." (slight deviations as in your case also count).

but .....

d) doesn´claim that according to your theory, gravity is in fact electromagnetism.

 

Now, when we completely ignore the probably very weak forces created and the anatomy of the bird your idea actually doesn´t sounds as stupid as ... erm ... as it sounds:

As Klaynos pointed out, you have the Lorentz force F = qv x B with q being the charge the bird aquires when it rubs its feet, v its travelling velocity and B the magnetic field of earth. If the bird is flying directly north or directly south, there will be no force. But if it moves nonparallel to earth magnetic field, there will be a force as v x B doesn´t vanish anymore, then.

So the bird simply had to always fly in such a direction in which the force it feels on its feet vanishes. It will either get to the warm south or end up as a penguin teasing icebears.[/quote']

 

But the magnetic poles are not alligned with the spin poles. The north pole is actually petty far off now, becoming increasingly so. So the birds would not be flying perfectly north south if this were correct.

[Martian]

Take the permeability and permittivity of free space, multiply and square. See what you get.

 

I don't think I'd even be able to begin to do that.

[Jacques]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxwell_equation

When I see that equation, I am amazed that the speed of light is found in the permeability and permittivity of free space!

Correct me if i am wrong but,the permeability and permittivity of free space was mesured with capacitor and coil .electric+magnetism => electromagnetism (EM)

[YT2095]

Charged particles are not effected by stationary magnetic fields.

 

I`m not sure how to read that?

 

I was always under the impression that they were, hence magnetic quenching of electric arcs, electron deflection in a CRT or thermionic valve, indeed the whole principal behind the Magnetron is that the stationaly magnets curve the straight path the electron would like to travel in, to a resonant frequency!

now I think of it, doesn`t the whole idea of the MRI do just that also, by aligning the Hydrogen spin?

 

or is someone missing something here?

 

edit: to the OP, what is the "Possitive pole" of a magnet?

[Klaynos]

By a stationary magnetic field I mean that the field is stationary relative to the particle. So if the particle is moving then the field is not stationary.

 

They have to be moving relative to each with some componant of the velocity to be perpendicular to the direction of the magnetic field, this will generate a force perpendicular to both that componant and the direction of the B field.

[Martian]

edit: to the OP, what is the "Possitive pole" of a magnet?

 

Positive side, rather. Aren't they also called poles? (Polarity?) Maybe I'm misunderstood?

 

Question: I was also under the impression that electrons could not travel in free space, but rather they "blip" from one atom to another without actually "traveling" the distance between. So what I'm wondering is how a magnetron curves the otherwise "straight path" an electron would take, when they really can't "travel" at all.

 

Do they convert to wave form?

[Jacques]

Positive side, rather. Aren't they also called poles? (Polarity?) Maybe I'm misunderstood?

North pole or south pole are used in magnetism to name the polarities.

Positive or negative are used for electricity.

I was also under the impression that electrons could not travel in free space

Yes they can. If you have an old monitor (not LCD) you see electrons hiting the pixel of the screen. They traveled from the electrongun at the back of the tube, aimed to each pixel by a modulated magnetic field. The tube is empty of air, an excellent vacum is needed for best control of the electron.

My two cents.

[Martian]

...thanks!