Can hydrogen really form more compounds than Carbon?

[budullewraagh]

ryan jones, please explain yourself:-p

[insane_alien]

it can bond to other elements to make compuonds other than hydrogen eg. H2S or H2O or HF... i could go on.

[RyanJ]

ryan jones, please explain yourself:-p

 

Indeed it can, atleast according too Chemistry Of The Elements

 

Apparrently its because Hydrogen is present in all organic compounds and then it forms hydroxides, hydrides and many more with just about every other element....

 

Cheers,

 

Ryan Jones

[akcapr]

my post disappeared

[budullewraagh]

wow. i apparently wasn't with it when i made the above post. i meant: can hydrogen really form more compounds than carbon?

 

now consider: hydrogen can be found in every organic compound, every arrhenius acid, every hydroxide, every bi-whatever and of course in its elemental form.

 

but carbon is found in every organic compound, in loads of allotropes, carbonates, carbides, cyanides, fulminates, acetylides, carbon halides (dichloroethylene, tetrachloroethylene, tetrachloromethane, hexachloroethane, etc) as well as a whole host of compounds that lack hydrogen but involve multiple carbon atoms and non-hydrogen atoms. and im sure im missing a bunch

[woelen]

All confusion is just a matter of language .

 

Of course, hydrogen can form compounds with practically every element and in endless varieties. The only constant thing is that it always has a single bond, or is ionic as hydride. But, if you first only knew of organic compounds, H2S, H2O and NH3 and acids containing hydrogen, then of course one can find it striking to see that hydrogen has such a richer chemistry than you first knew of.

 

If hydrogen bonds as H(+) ion, then it hardly exists as naked H(+) ion, it almost always is coordinated to something else. In the strong acids like HNO3, HCl and H2SO4 is is bonded covalently. When these acids ionize (e.g. in water, or liquid ammonia), then H(+) is coordinated to H2O or NH3: H3O(+) and NH4(+).

 

The only compound, which I know of, and which has a naked proton, a real H(+) ion, is a recently discovered chloro-borane-based super acid. This is the strongest acid known, yet hardly corrosive to most materials.

[budullewraagh]

yes but i pray you tell me whether carbon really does form less compounds than hydrogen, my dear woelen

[woelen]

You cannot easily say, which element forms less compounds. How would you count this? Most organics happen to be compounds, both of H and C.

 

What I can state, however, is that the chemistry of C is even more rich than the chemistry of H. C has 4 electrons, available for bonding, while H only has one. In organic compounds, the C atom can be present in many different bondingschemes, while the H-atoms basically are always bound in one of few ways (most notably a single bond to other element).

[RyanJ]

Well, the book seems too beincludng complex chemistry too, Hydrogen seems to have a lot of reactions in commplex chemistry so could this contribute too their result?

 

Cheers,

 

Ryan Jones

[YT2095]

since we Still as yet don`t know ALL the possible chemical permutations, it really is almost impossible to answer on that basis alone.

probably not the "Definative answer" you were looking for, but it`s Honest

 

btw, I altered the thread title for you, I`m glad you eventualy stated what you DID mean.

if anything like that ever happens again, Please, just PM me and let me know, that`s what I`m here for

[budullewraagh]

"Most organics happen to be compounds, both of H and C."

actually all organics are, considering the fact that "organic" compounds are defined as having both H and C

[akcapr]

Im not sure if bucky balls are considered organic (theyre all carbon) but the have no hydrogens attached. That may an exception to the H in every organic rule.

[ecoli]

Im not sure if bucky balls are considered organic (theyre all carbon) but the have no hydrogens attached. That may an exception to the H in every organic rule.

 

And I believe there are come Halocarbons that lack H that are still considered organic molecules.

[RyanJ]

And I believe there are come Halocarbons that lack H that are still considered organic molecules.

 

As far as I can find there are two definitions, not shure which is correct but the first is most commonly used:

 

A compound containing hydrocarbon groups.

 

any compound of carbon and another element or a radical

 

Cheers,

 

Ryan Jones

[jdurg]

And I believe there are come Halocarbons that lack H that are still considered organic molecules.

 

Carbon tetrachloride is a prime example. (CCl4)