Space Travel Realities: Why No Answer?

[markoverbey]

I posted a message on 1/4/06 (Space Travel Realities) regarding the physical limitations (as we currently understand them) associated with long distance space travel. In the message I tactfully challenged anyone in the know (a physicist, for example) to discredit my basic premise that speed alone will not suffice to permit interstellar exploration. Sadly, no one has responded. I could infer from this that, despite insignificant technical flaws unrelated to the basic premise, my argument is reasonably valid. I say this not to prove a point in this forum, but rather, to validate to some degree my thoughts so that I be not the fool in forwarding them to those who hold the purse strings for our space program. Please take a moment to review my perspective and, should there be erroneous conclusion, share with me my failures so that I may tidy up my conclusion for more public display. Thank you in advance!

 

Best Regards,

 

Mark

[swansont]

The problem is that just linking to another page and saying, "tell me if I'm wrong" doesn't differentiate you from loads of crackpot-spammers who think they've toppled relativity, quantum mechanics or evolution. Starting out with "I'm not scientifically credentialed but" doesn't help you at all.

[GORDON HERMA]

After reading the article it seems we are cut down in our grandchildrens lifetime to the possibility of wormholes to travel to another star system.

We just have to build one. Anything is possible in my book, you just have to look at it with the right set of glasses and give it some time.

[Illuminati]

Well, I agree that with current propulsion technology, we would never get anywhere in our universe successfully, even with experimental ion drives.

 

However, a theoretical design of a hyperdrive has been submitted to government groups including NASA, and according to the creator, we will have a test model in 5 years. The hyperdrive is said to travel through seperate dimensions where the speed of light is faster than in our current dimension utilizing intense magnetic fields. The drive is said to allow travel to mars in 3 hours and a star 11 light years away in just 80 days.

 

Source: http://www.sci-tech-today.com/story.xhtml?story_id=0110000QGNPI

 

Still, this drive is all theory, and most people do not believe it will work. But here's hoping!

[markoverbey]

Swansont-Points well taken.

 

Illuminati: Very interesting article you reference. Hopefully it will turn out to be true and within the time frame indicated.

[rajama]

The device is based on a Heim theory - see current thread: http://www.scienceforums.net/forums/showthread.php?t=17547

[Sayonara]

I posted a message on 1/4/06 (Space Travel Realities) regarding the physical limitations (as we currently understand them) associated with long distance space travel. In the message I tactfully challenged anyone in the know (a physicist, for example) to discredit my basic premise that speed alone will not suffice to permit interstellar exploration. Sadly, no one has responded. I could infer from this that, despite insignificant technical flaws unrelated to the basic premise, my argument is reasonably valid.

Given that "speed alone" (by which I take it you mean no clever shortcuts, e.g. cross-dimensional travel, wormholes etc) is known to have a limitation, it is more likely that they did not see any argument there at all.

[Ophiolite]

Mark,

I missed your original post. I have now read your article. It has many minor inaccuracies, but these are insignificant compared with its major flaw. You are recommending investment in technologies for which there is

a) no evidence they will work

b) plenty of evidence they will not work

That does not appear to me to be a sensible way to invest research funding. Indeed it rather reminds me of the story of the drunk who was found stumbling around under a lamp post. A passerby asked if he was in need of help. "I lost my keys over there by the library."

"So why are you looking for them here?"

"It's dark over there. It's light here."

[markoverbey]

Mark' date='

I missed your original post. I have now read your article. It has many minor inaccuracies, but these are insignificant compared with its major flaw. You are recommending investment in technologies for which there is

a) no evidence they will work

b) plenty of evidence they will not work

That does not appear to me to be a sensible way to invest research funding.[/quote']

 

Ophiolite:

I can appreciate your concerns regarding the possible (or probable?) lack of viability of the alternative interstellar travel methods I rather haphazardly put forth. The main point of my article was that the space travel methods we now use do not, and more importantly NEVER WILL, have effective interstellar travel capabilities no matter to what extent the technology may mature. My subsequent argument is that we should put more resources into pursuing technology that may ultimately allow for such. With that in mind I would like to pose a few questions (to you and/or everyone else):

 

-Do you believe that we have conclusively determined that interstellar travel (in less than 6 months for example) is an absolute impossibility that will never be overcome by technology?

 

-If we have not determined that it is impossible, and always will be, should we pursue research that may make it a possibility?

 

-If you think it may be possible, what one or two general hypothetical methods do you think might be the most promising avenues to follow?

 

Thanks,

 

Mark

[Ophiolite]

Right. Let me take this one point at a time.

The main point of my article was that the space travel methods we now use do not, and more importantly NEVER WILL, have effective interstellar travel capabilities no matter to what extent the technology may mature.

I disagree with your fundamental premise. There are four options that would in all likelihood be feasible using technology not much more advanced than what we have today, and certainly one of which should be achievable within one millenium, at the outside.

 

1) Hibernation

2) Generation star ships

3) Greatly extended life spans

4) Seed ships

 

All of these are potentially viable methods for getting humans to other stellar systems. Two of them provide means of getting the individuals who set out to the other system.

 

Now you appear to have set an arbitary, very short term, limit on what constitutes effective interstellar travel. So I shall consider the points arising from that.

-Do you believe that we have conclusively determined that interstellar travel (in less than 6 months for example) is an absolute impossibility that will never be overcome by technology?

No. I do not believe we have. The recent resurfacing of Heim theory suggests there is always a possibility of something unexpected.

If we have not determined that it is impossible, and always will be, should we pursue research that may make it a possibility?

If and only if such research is focused upon well defined possibilities that can be subject to appropriate testing in a cost effective manner.

If you think it may be possible, what one or two general hypothetical methods do you think might be the most promising avenues to follow?

The only one that I am aware of is the Heim theory. The US Dept of Energy has expressed interest in carrying out a test if and only if the physics stands up to further scrutiny.

Instead of frittering away money on other less well substantiated possibilities, it would make much more sense to be investing more research funds in the construction of a space elevator. It has always been an effective adage - walk before you can run.

[FreeThinker]

I enjoyed the article, very optimistic. But before the goverement can start funding any such projects, all theories have to stand up to scientific scruteny ( as mentiouned in the previous posts).At least with the current fuel powered spacecraft we are exploring our solar system (even if it does take decades). If funding was to go into an unproven field, there is no gurantee that we could reach the moon!

[MindOfChaos]

I would love it if the technology in that article worked. Some how it seems a bit to good to be true plus the fact they talk about it being based on physics that conflicts with the laws comonally excepted so it makes me think that this probably is not going to work. Funding every science project that came up with a idea for interstellar space travel could send the government on a wild goose chase wasting money.

 

That said I think there will be more theorys in the future of differen't ways to travel between stars if this heims theory doesn't work in. And one of those theorys mite work. I would hope they invent some thing for interstellar travel with in the next 40 years but im not holding my breath. Longer life is some thing I am more interested in or though I fear that that will only be for rich people who can afford health care or what ever new medical invention that people invent.