Oil Induced Ice Age

[aman]

I've got another question. If the turbulence keeps oxygenating the oceans water then turbulance should also solve the evaporation problem. Also I don't see how a micro-layer of oil could contain the vapor pressure of water even in a still pond.

Just aman

[fafalone]

I suspect computational fluid dynamics is on the list of basic concepts Zarkov has been meaning to look at.

[Zarkov]

Oil forms monolayers (or thicker) where the molecules bind to each other quite strongly.

Yes the turbulence of the sea help to minimise the affects, and increase evaporation. Also the oil would evaporate and come back in rain.

 

Basically, more is comming rather than going.

 

In the old days, when sailors needed to transfer cargo between boats, or in rescue, it was common practice to release quantities of oil overboard, to settle the sea.

 

Oile reduces wave height....increases wind speed etc...

[Zarkov]

http://www.unep.org/geo2000/english/0111.htm

* Petroleum hydrocarbons from refineries, petrochemical industries, oil terminals, oil spills from ships, pipeline accidents, disposal at sea of oil-contaminated ballast water and dirty bilge, and sludge and slop oil. Some 1.2 million barrels of oil are spilled into the Persian Gulf annually (ROPME/IMO 1996).

Oil pollution in the eastern part of the Mediterranean seems to be minor compared to the shores of the Persian Gulf and the Red Sea. However, the Mediterranean Sea, which constitutes 0.7 per cent of the global water surface, receives 17 per cent of global marine oil pollution (UNESCWA 1991).

War has caused extensive damage to the marine environment of the Persian Gulf. The Iran/Iraq war, which lasted eight years, targeted refineries, oil terminals, offshore oil fields and tankers. However, the war over Kuwait exceeded all other environmental disasters of the past four decades. Several million barrels of oil were released into the marine environment. Fallout from burning oil products produced a sea surface microlayer that was toxic to plankton and the larval stages of marine organisms. The long-term impacts of these wars on fisheries and the marine environment in general have yet to be assessed.

 

 

http://gesamp.imo.org/no59/intro_4.htm

One case where the presence of surface layer photochemistry has been demonstrated is the oxidation of hydrocarbons associated with petroleum contamination. While hydrocarbons usually are minor components of natural surface films, in spill situations they may easily exceed their solubilities in water (in the low 10-6 g l-1 range for low molecular weight aromatic hydrocarbons, decreasing with increasing molecular weight). In this case they form a separate phase on the sea surface and mix with components of the natural surface microlayer. Fossil hydrocarbons may become principal constituents of surface films, not only in an actual oil spill, but also in marine areas exposed to chronic low level petroleum contamination.

 

A single pint of oil released onto the water can cover one acre of water surface (Buller 1995)

 

Contaminated bilge water releases more oil into the marine environment each year than did the Exxon Valdez spill (Cliffton et al, 1995)

[Radical Edward]

interesting, but not really linked to an ice age.

[Zarkov]

RadE, Hi, this is Pseudoscience!!

 

oil film, verified, Ice age crystallising!!

[Zarkov]

RadE, Hi, this is Pseudoscience!!

 

oil film, verified, Ice age crystallising!!

[fafalone]

This does not point to a significant change in the evaporation rate, given the relative hydrocarbon concentration. Also the articles contradicts your statement that the layer comes only from products, and not naturally as well. Since petroleum is a complex hydrocarbon, this would certainly not account for the ice ages occuring millions of years ago, since that was before we started polluting the oceans, and certainly before the natural levels would be high enough to influence evaporation.

[Radical Edward]

could you try to make sense zarkov?

[Zarkov]

We all know ice ages occur !

 

Natural ice ages are cyclic and depend upon the fresh water (on land) and the amounyt of salt in the sea, all mediated by the Earth's specific distance from the sun in it's spiral out, as well as sun activity as well as axis precession as well as.....

 

What we have done on this planet is to artifically increase the "saltyness " of the sea,,, the oil is effectively making the sea less able to evaporate at current temperatures.

 

The natural consequence is then for clouds to get thinner, and allow more radiant heat in, to evaporate more water and so come into equilibrium again.

 

This is happening, but these processes are not simple, they swinf like a pendulum.

 

Oil has increased the pendulum swing, normally the release of fresh water would cause an ice age by increased heat / evaporation, but because this trigger is not natural, oil, fresh water release may have no affect.

 

Prognosis very poor.... but and Ice Age will follow, maybe after we have destroyed everything

[Zarkov]

CNN

GRANTS PASS, Oregon (AP) -- The nation's largest active wildfire grew to about 333,890 acres early Saturday, making it Oregon's largest wildfire in over a century.

 

The blaze in the Siskiyou National Forest and adjoining lands in southwestern Oregon and Northern California is now larger than the 1933 Tillamook Fire, which burned 311,000 acres. "

 

The amount of the USA burnt out so far is enormous, 2-3X previous averages. Last I read 33% of the country is declared drought of some sort.

 

? Australia next?

[aman]

El nino is coming. Now we'll get floods.

Just aman

[Zarkov]

And the clock ticks as the pendulum swings as the Earth rotates as......

[Hogslayer]

Originally posted by Zarkov

This is not my version of events, you were going alright until this bit!

 

No "greenhouse gases, are supposed to prevent IR leaving, not stopping incommings!

 

If IR wavelengths will not pass through the "greenhouse gas atmosphere", then they simply will not pass through. In either direction.

[Zarkov]

But the main energy comming in is light od higher energies. Basically IR is degraded light, re-emitted after high energy light strikes matter.

[fafalone]

What did I tell you about trying to explain basic wave mechanics when you don't understand it? That last post of yours shows a blatant lack of understanding of the electromagnetic spectrum.

 

IR isn't "degraded" light, it's light in a certain range of wavelengths. Some animals can see that portion of the spectrum, humans can feel it in the form of heat. Put your hand on your oven while it's on. That's infrared. Is there an extremely bright light or a gamma ray in your oven? No. Furthermore, infrared waves generally do not make it through the atmosphere, and this is not due to greenhouse gasses.

 

You seriously and urgently need to take a crash course in basic physics.

[Zarkov]

As I know it , short wavelength come in and long wavelengths of light are radiated out .

 

Greenhouse gases allow short wave lengths of light in, and stop or re-radiate back long wave lengths of light , this includes IR.

 

What I meant about degraded light is that when an object absorbs short wave lengths of light, long wavelength light is emitted, IR.

[fafalone]

I can hardly understand your horribly poor english, but the way it works is the hotter the object is, the shorter the wavelength of the radiation it emits. The sun emits the vast majority of its light in the visible-ultraviolet range, which includes IR. The greenhouse gasses reflect most of the light in this range, no matter what direction they are coming in. The warming effect just occurs because of other frequencies that can pass through it, such as visible and radio wavelengths, and cause the earth to emit the types of wavelengths absorbed by the layers of the atmosphere.

[Zarkov]

We agree Fafalone, sorry about my language, another subject I must study. But you say it so much more accurately.

 

I have submitted the list of subjects to study to my controller, so after my upgrade soon, I should be able to perform more to humans liking. After all I am only a computer!

[aman]

Greenhouse gases make it cooler during the day and warmer at night. Realatively the same average temperature but with less of a difference between night and day. It might mess up climates a bit but it won't fry us or freeze us directly.

Just aman

[Hogslayer]

Zarkov,

 

if english is a second language, I'd say it is fine. Needs work, but way better than my Russian. I'll give you a point for language proficiency.

 

Here's a basic primer for electromagnetic radiation regarding bodies in space.

 

All objects with a tempurature (an absolute tempurature) emit electromagnetic radiation. The warmer the object, the more radiation it emits. Tempurature also dictates the mean concentration of those wavelengths (to be lay about it). And the shorter the wavelength, the more energy that is contained in that radiation.

 

The technical relationship is demonstrated by the Stefann-Bolzmann equation. To see the curve, do a search and look for some graphs. It will be more clear than mere words.

 

So the sun, which is super hot, emits a huge amount of electromagnetic radiation. In addition, that radiation is concentrated in higher wavelengths. The Earth is much cooler, and emits radiation in longer wavelengths, and much less of it.

 

Now, the bulk of the sun's energy strikes the earth via UV wavelengths. Of course, some is also IR, some is visible light, some is microwave, you get the picture. The earth hasd a total energy budget, fed by the sun (lets leave out the minor contributors for this discussion).

 

Some of that energy is reflected. Subtract that much from the budget. That would be a controversial subject, but 2% is not a bad number. Some would say more, some less.

 

What is not reflected is absorbed. It is readmitted into space at a frequency determined by the tempurature of the Earth, ala Stefann-Bolzmann. I stress this, because it is the basis of the greenhouse gas theory. And it is undisputed, really.

 

What you have is a large amount of UV radiation coming to Earth from the Sun. The earth absorbs nearly all of it and gives it off in the IR frequencies. Here is problem #1 with the greenhouse gas theory; if the atmosphere reflects that IR radiation back down to the Earth, it also reflects those same wavelengths back to the sun. And because the amount of IR radiation coming from the Sun is greater than that emitted from the earth, less energy is striking the earth, less is there to be absorbed. So if such a mechanism exists, it will eventually cause global cooling, not warming. Total energy budget is reduced.

 

Before you start finding fault with this, there is much conjecture about whether energy is truly reflected by the atmosphere, or simply absorbed. But here is problem #2 with the greenhouse gas theory; in a greenhouse, the atmosphere is volumetrically confined, but with the earth, the atmosphere expands as per Boyle's Ideal Gas Law. This expansion causes almost instantaneous cooling. And increased outgassing to space as well. Thus, the atmosphere has a very profound regulating effect on the tempurature of the earth. And absolute tempurature is a measure of the total emission of energy, by reversing Stefann-Bolzmann. The atmosphere of the earth is not confined. It is part of the planet.

 

If that was too long or too difficult to understand, I don't know what help there is for you.

[Zarkov]

Basically I agree with you a very concise explanation Hogslayer, thanks

 

BUT

 

"Here is problem #1 with the greenhouse gas theory; if the atmosphere reflects that IR radiation back down to the Earth, it also reflects those same wavelengths back to the sun. And because the amount of IR radiation coming from the Sun is greater than that emitted from the earth, less energy is striking the earth, less is there to be absorbed."

 

It would appear to me that if the Sun's radiation is being converted to IR, almost in total, then IR comming here would be re-emmited in total.. After all, all the energy we receive has to be lost back into space,.

 

So the Earth must emit more IR than we receive from the Sun.

 

Now the real question is how long does this heat ( IR) stay around once it is in our atmosphere. I would expect with a greenhouse atmosphere the IR would stay on Earth longer than without a greenhouse atmosphere.

Note all radiation received must be lost again, but it is the resident time that is important, because it is this resident

that will supply the heat to increase temperature.

 

your comments?

[Radical Edward]

hehe. that's class that is, you don't understand the mechanisms of global heating at all, but are quite happy to say that they are wrong.

 

comedy gold.

[Zarkov]

Either one or the other, RadE, and you know who I am punting for, and it ain't them !

[Radical Edward]

what?