Any way to induce hallucination without drugs?

hayleycomet · November 10, 2007

My sister once ate a lot of sweets at a party and went a bit mental. She was seven. Hope that helps.

Fred56 · November 10, 2007

The thing about inducing an experience that (believe me), will show you a world some of you may not be comfortable (for reasons that will become quickly apparent) in, is that you should at least not try it without a little preparation, at least of the mental kind.

The "thing" about wanting to find something (out about yourself), that's a different kind of story, it does (I believe), depend greatly on the reason for doing something like that.

My experience has been, if you "try it", then you also have to "buy" whatever or wherever the ticket ride takes you.

Read Gibran, Leary (maybe, he's pretty OTT), even Castaneda (if you look at it objectively), and the ol' favourite: Huxley's "The Doors of Perception".

Don't do something like take 100ug of LSD, or say, chew up some shrooms or peyote buttons without checking out a map (where someone has gone already) first. And remember, it's not (meant to be) a "one way" ticket.

Otherwise, happy hunting...

insane_alien · November 10, 2007

The thing about inducing an experience that (believe me), will show you a world some of you may not be comfortable (for reasons that will become quickly apparent) in, is that you should at least not try it without a little preparation, at least of the mental kind.

its the same world, just a different perspective with a good amount of signal noise thrown in. some good, some bad. and i don't know what you mean by 'mental preparation'. the one and only time i tried a hallucinogen i didn't prepare mentally for it. nothing bad happened, and according to my friend who is a more regular user, it was reasonable dose and not just a very small one.

saying that, i have had very very similar experiences actually, many and often more vivid. all without the aid of drugs. its called 'dreaming'. sleep deprevation is also good for it if you don'tmind waiting for a few days.

Fred56 · November 11, 2007

Right, dreams can sometimes be extremely lucid, even vision-like; and you don't need to take anything for this experience (except a nap).

And a tale of caution about experimentation, expecially with stuff you don't know what it does, like.

I heard a story from a guy who, like only bs's a 'little' bit, who told me about a bunch of dudes who got "lost" in the bush, after cooking up, and drinking, an entire Datura plant.

Apparently one of them spent several days in a tree, the others were picking up hot coals and staring at them, you know, the usual stuff. This from someone who was with them and tried to stop them all wandering off, but had to give up. They all survived though, but then they were miles from anyone else...

Oh yeah, and I've never personally met many LSD users (of the regular kind), who have "survived well", and who don't regret doing it. It's a ticket, but going on the ride too many times really can be bad for your future...

insane_alien · November 11, 2007

i'm not saying you shouldn't be cautious but you did seem to be perpetuating a lot of bull about hallucinogens.

DrDNA · November 12, 2007

My Brain!!!!!!!!!

Keep it up and this will be you in the chair.....you mad reefer monkies.

Fred56 · November 12, 2007

you did seem to be ...

And what do the kids seem to be doing, or should we tell them to stay away from the scary guy with the funny mask on (..hey, maybe we could tell them to stay away from each other too...)?

chrgibson · November 12, 2007

I was looking for a forum that had scientific merit on the phenomenon of natural halluciations, which I endured as a child, and I came across this discussion on hallucinations. I am appalled by the lack of knowledge and misinformation represented here.

To the poster that said a friend had took LSD and subsequently gauged their own eyes out with a spoon because of flashbacks!?! Grow up. Flashbacks are at most a feeling of disassociation, slight audio echoes and visual hallucinations... very slight. The flashback effect has been extremely sensationalised by the governments medical branch. The government has a history of lying to its citizens, take the film "Reefer Madness" as a case in point. People jumping out of windows believing they could fly is another urban myth. LSD is NOT an hallucinogen, it is a pseudo-hallucinogen. It also doesn't seem to bring about the most striking effects on first use (tracers etc.).

Whoever recommended starving your brain of oxygen, or inducing hyperventilation, should be banned from posting. This kind of experience should not be attempted in a non-medical environment, and it has a very low chance of success. I'd feel safer telling someone to amputate their arm at home than this. If you must interfere with breathing, then do it using meditation breathing techniques, but don't expect open-eyed hallucinations.

As for someone disagreeing with science on how safe hallucinogens like LSD and mushrooms are, just because this isn't a hippy/psychedelic forum, is just unbelievable. Science and independant research has shown that the classification of LSD, DMT, psilocibin etc. into the most controlled category has absolutely nothing to do with how harmful these substances are. The substances create fear in ignorant people, and this has been leveraged by politics on multiple occasions without regard for the reality of things. Just because you don't like the results of the science, doesn't mean it should be ignored. Really, don't let people make a mockery of science in a scientific forum.

There are many genuine methods of inducing hallucinations, and i'll try and give a quick guide to a few.

Morning Glory, Baby Hawaiin Woodrose:

These are a simple and relatively safe way to experience a pseudo-lsd trip. They contain LSA the precursor to LSD, however if you bought Morning Glory from a supermarket it will have been treated with chemicals that are extremely unpleasant. The husk of both types of seeds contain chemicals which will also make you vomit, so if you don't want to taint your experience with feeling ill, don't do it. Incidentally the strongest Morning Glory LSA content comes in three varieties - Heavenly Blue, Flying Saucers and Pearly Gates.

Datura, Belladonna, Amanita Muscaria:

Keep away from all of these plants, they are extremely toxic and will cause delerium not just hallucincations.

Pscilocibin mushrooms:

The type depends on your location, but these are simply the best method of inducing a first time hallucinogenic experience. Do not underestimate it though, because you can go to heaven or hell, and unless your experienced the only way back is when you come down. They are also short acting (5-6 hours), and natural unlike LSD.

DMT containing plants, the Bufo toad:

This is the most profound experience of them all, but its cultivation and preparation are extremely difficult and I wouldn't recommend it. There are plenty short break vision quest style holidays available that will give you the experience safely. Check out 'Eagles Wing' for an example. However this experience is not for the faint of heart, prior hallucinogen experience is definately a prerequisite before attempting this. The Bufo toad secretes DMT and as has been stated can be licked, probably smoked for the effect. Given its location and chance of capture, don't bother. Additionally there are plenty of seeds containing hallucinogenic material used as snuff, called yopo. This isn't very pleasant in any sense of the word, and not something I'd recommend.

Mescaline producing Cacti:

I have no experience yet with these, but mescaline was used in visionary practices of native indians. Peyotl was revered as a deity by the maya and central American civilisations. It is considered extremely safe, although that is clinical grade mescaline, the cacti contains hundreds of additional alkaloids, and its common to vomit as the effects come on. Huxleys 'The Doors of Perception' is all about his experience with mescaline.

Lucid Dreaming:

Easiest and least harmful of them all, there are plenty of factual websites on this phenomenon, and if you are lucky enough to have done this naturally in the past, then it should be easy to train yourself. Strangely nicotine patches seem to induce lucid dreaming, although most people consider them 'nightmares'. Being able to bend the world around you til your hearts content, have any experience you want, and do this in the dead time you call sleep, are all excellent reasons to take up this 'hobby'. Thoroughly recommended.

Trance Dancing:

Rythmic percussion and chanting for several hours can induce a trance, possibly hallucinations, but only if your an experienced practitioner. I've not experienced this, I'm too reserved to practice this in modern society.

Sensory Deprivation, Sensory Overload:

I've no experience on this, but to find out more check out native American Vision Quests, as these often include days in the wilderness.

My advice, either lucid dream or psilocybin mushrooms. Any other method will probably be stupid. >:D

Fred56 · November 12, 2007

Just sitting around a campfire and meditating with others out in the open is pretty centering (especially if you can get well away from any civilisation -but I guess wild animals are a problem for some, then there are fire regulations -like its an offence to light a fire on a beach). There´s the sweat-lodge approach -the Indians had a lot of initiation ceremonies, but many involved peyote or mushrooms and stuff.

1veedo · November 12, 2007

To the poster that said a friend had took LSD and subsequently gauged their own eyes out with a spoon because of flashbacks!?! Grow up. Flashbacks are at most a feeling of disassociation' date=' slight audio echoes and visual hallucinations... very slight. The flashback effect has been extremely sensationalised by the governments medical branch. The government has a history of lying to its citizens, take the film "Reefer Madness" as a case in point. People jumping out of windows believing they could fly is another urban myth. LSD is NOT an hallucinogen, it is a pseudo-hallucinogen. It also doesn't seem to bring about the most striking effects on first use (tracers etc.).
...

As for someone disagreeing with science on how safe hallucinogens like LSD and mushrooms are, just because this isn't a hippy/psychedelic forum, is just unbelievable. Science and independant research has shown that the classification of LSD, DMT, psilocibin etc. into the most controlled category has absolutely nothing to do with how harmful these substances are. The substances create fear in ignorant people, and this has been leveraged by politics on multiple occasions without regard for the reality of things. Just because you don't like the results of the science, doesn't mean it should be ignored. Really, don't let people make a mockery of science in a scientific forum.[/quote']Flashbacks do happen. There was a poster earlier saying that basically lsd was fine and didn't cause flashbacks but you usually do not notice that what you're experiencing is a flashback and/or residual effect of lsd. People assume flashbacks mean the hollywood type.

I mean lsd isn't any worse than something like pcp or dxm but you have to be careful with that shit.

And yes the government does lie about drugs, a lot. Many drugs aren't as bad as some people try to make them out to be but there are a good many drugs that honestly you should stay away from. I'm not saying the government should make you, I'm just saying that you shouldn't assume a drug is harmless cause you read somewhere that it was.

Take mushrooms for example. If you genuinely have good mushrooms and don't make a habit of it, shroom trips can be perfectly safe. But shrooms do this thing where they change species literally overnight and it does happen -- the difference between tripping balls and killing yourself on shrooms is very hard to judge, and this is not propaganda. If it were legal you wouldn't have these kinds of problems of course but you should know what you're doing (shroms aren't that bad though lol they **** you up pretty good though. For most drugs the worst thing they do is **** you up so bad that you can't go in public safely, and trust me when you do shrooms you don't want to try to do anything like you would sober -- this is pretty much the reason most governments around the world, besides influence from alcohol lobbyists, keep things like this illegal).

There are many genuine methods of inducing hallucinations, and i'll try and give a quick guide to a few.

Morning Glory, Baby Hawaiin Woodrose:

These are a simple and relatively safe way to experience a pseudo-lsd trip. They contain LSA the precursor to LSD, however if you bought Morning Glory from a supermarket it will have been treated with chemicals that are extremely unpleasant. The husk of both types of seeds contain chemicals which will also make you vomit, so if you don't want to taint your experience with feeling ill, don't do it. Incidentally the strongest Morning Glory LSA content comes in three varieties - Heavenly Blue, Flying Saucers and Pearly Gates.

Datura, Belladonna, Amanita Muscaria:

Keep away from all of these plants, they are extremely toxic and will cause delerium not just hallucincations.

Pscilocibin mushrooms:

The type depends on your location, but these are simply the best method of inducing a first time hallucinogenic experience. Do not underestimate it though, because you can go to heaven or hell, and unless your experienced the only way back is when you come down. They are also short acting (5-6 hours), and natural unlike LSD.

DMT containing plants, the Bufo toad:

This is the most profound experience of them all, but its cultivation and preparation are extremely difficult and I wouldn't recommend it. There are plenty short break vision quest style holidays available that will give you the experience safely. Check out 'Eagles Wing' for an example. However this experience is not for the faint of heart, prior hallucinogen experience is definately a prerequisite before attempting this. The Bufo toad secretes DMT and as has been stated can be licked, probably smoked for the effect. Given its location and chance of capture, don't bother. Additionally there are plenty of seeds containing hallucinogenic material used as snuff, called yopo. This isn't very pleasant in any sense of the word, and not something I'd recommend.

Mescaline producing Cacti:

I have no experience yet with these, but mescaline was used in visionary practices of native indians. Peyotl was revered as a deity by the maya and central American civilisations. It is considered extremely safe, although that is clinical grade mescaline, the cacti contains hundreds of additional alkaloids, and its common to vomit as the effects come on. Huxleys 'The Doors of Perception' is all about his experience with mescaline.

Lucid Dreaming:

Easiest and least harmful of them all, there are plenty of factual websites on this phenomenon, and if you are lucky enough to have done this naturally in the past, then it should be easy to train yourself. Strangely nicotine patches seem to induce lucid dreaming, although most people consider them 'nightmares'. Being able to bend the world around you til your hearts content, have any experience you want, and do this in the dead time you call sleep, are all excellent reasons to take up this 'hobby'. Thoroughly recommended.

Trance Dancing:

Rythmic percussion and chanting for several hours can induce a trance, possibly hallucinations, but only if your an experienced practitioner. I've not experienced this, I'm too reserved to practice this in modern society.

Sensory Deprivation, Sensory Overload:

I've no experience on this, but to find out more check out native American Vision Quests, as these often include days in the wilderness.

My advice, either lucid dream or psilocybin mushrooms. Any other method will probably be stupid.

You forgot strong weed (like hydro), pcp, hydroponic weed laced w/ pcp, salvia, and jenken lol I'm sure there are more.

chrgibson · November 12, 2007

But shrooms do this thing where they change species literally overnight and it does happen -- the difference between tripping balls and killing yourself on shrooms is very hard to judge, and this is not propaganda.

I think your mistaken about species changing overnight. Its true that several types of mushroom can be growing in the same soil, its a web of mycelium threaded through the soil. So what you seeing as a change of species is actually a completely different mushroom. In the UK its fairly easy to distinguish the liberty cap from other types, not so sure about other countries, but you do not want to mess around second guessing these things. Buy a grow kit, they're usually cubensis.

You forgot strong weed (like hydro), pcp, hydroponic weed laced w/ pcp, salvia, and jenken lol I'm sure there are more.

I mentioned marijuana already, and i still say its not hallucinogenic. It may cause you to day dream wildly, even get pseudo-auditory hallucinations, but thats about it.

Pcp, weed, pcp+weed? I think your stretching it a little :doh:

I will give you Salvia though, forgot about the Diviners Sage, and on the plus side its legal. Its also weird and fast, not something a noob should be doing.

Ketamine is also not on the list, but I've no experience with this either.

1veedo · November 12, 2007

I think your mistaken about species changing overnight. Its true that several types of mushroom can be growing in the same soil, its a web of mycelium threaded through the soil. So what you seeing as a change of species is actually a completely different mushroom. In the UK its fairly easy to distinguish the liberty cap from other types, not so sure about other countries, but you do not want to mess around second guessing these things. Buy a grow kit, they're usually cubensis.

They can change from literally being good tripy mushrooms to the type that can kill you. My friend who grows them says it can sometimes happen overnight but the chances you'll accidentally eat the wrong type are relatively low. If you grow them special or something you can even turn bad ones into the good type. It's not something to really worry about you just have to make sure you're eating the right kind.

I mentioned marijuana already, and i still say its not hallucinogenic. It may cause you to day dream wildly, even get pseudo-auditory hallucinations, but thats about it.

Lol I'm sure it depends on the person but marijuana can definitely make you hallucinate and even trip out as bad as some of the other psychedelics. Smoke some hydroponic weed out of bowl with keif sprinkled on top and tell me you don't at least have auditory hallucinations.

Pcp, weed, pcp+weed? I think your stretching it a little

I will give you Salvia though, forgot about the Diviners Sage, and on the plus side its legal. Its also weird and fast, not something a noob should be doing.

Ketamine is also not on the list, but I've no experience with this either.

Pcp makes you trip out dude, like really bad most people don't even like it.

chrgibson · November 12, 2007

They can change from literally being good tripy mushrooms to the type that can kill you.

Show me some literature that details this 'change'. I'll tell you what I think your on about..

The mycelium network can take in contaminates, which can quickly taint growing mushrooms so they can make you really sick. The problem is the stuff your growing the mushrooms on is perfect for all kinds of bacteria, and if the mycelium does not cover every part of the substrate, or there is damage to the network that allows air into the substrate, then you can end up with trippy AND dangerous mushrooms. What your suggesting is a change of species, which both impossible and completely wrong.

If you grow them special or something you can even turn bad ones into the good type. It's not something to really worry about you just have to make sure you're eating the right kind.

You can't turn bad into good, if its poisoned then the batch is ruined. Most of the time you can see visually the infection, but they would still be 'the right kind' of mushroom. I'm not trying to be a tosser, or play devils advocate, but either you misheard your friend or he's wrong.

As for weed and PCP, fair enough. But marijuana is still not an hallucinogen. PCP is so far from the OP's original request that I thought it was a little silly to include; that and I have no experience with it.

1veedo · November 12, 2007

Show me some literature that details this 'change'. I'll tell you what I think your on about..
The mycelium network can take in contaminates' date=' which can quickly taint growing mushrooms so they can make you really sick. The problem is the stuff your growing the mushrooms on is perfect for all kinds of bacteria, and if the mycelium does not cover every part of the substrate, or there is damage to the network that allows air into the substrate, then you can end up with trippy AND dangerous mushrooms.[/quote']That's more or less what I was talking about. They can turn bad. I don't know much about shrooms but there are different kinds you want to eat and they can change into something else. Classifying mushrooms can actually be a pretty hard task because of this -- a mushroom will seemingly change it's chemical makeup. Modern taxonomy is far from perfect because of this imprecision in classifying a type of mushroom. Like I'm not trying to say "my friend said this so..." you're probably more correct than him but he's actually seen mushrooms go bad before. They might not change complete species, or at least not very often, but they definitely do change and sometimes in a bad way. Mushrooms are kind of weird like that.

You probably don't have to worry about it too much but if you're buying your shrooms from someone and don't doublecheck yourself there's always the possibility that your shrooms are poisoness. This is why people end up in the hospital trying to trip on shrooms.

But marijuana is still not an hallucinogen.
By definition as a psychoactive drug marijuana is
1) A stimulant

2) A depressent

3) A hallucinogen

That's what makes marijuana such an interesting plant -- some weed you get will make you really high, some will make you a "couch stoner," others will give you plenty of energy to go do something etc.

I don't really see how you can say it's not a hallucinogen. Marijuana for the most part does not make you hallucinate in the classical sense but what it does is distort your perception of reality. So instead of seeing a normal hallway with both feet on the ground you'll go floating through a weird dimension. The way you see the world essentially changes while you're high, but you'll rarely trip unless it's really strong weed. I don't know what you're basing your claim from whether it's by definition of "hallucinogen" or personal experience. Marijuana can actually cause psychosis in some people who are slightly schizophrenic.

PCP is so far from the OP's original request that I thought it was a little silly to include; that and I have no experience with it.
Lol yeah non-drug ways to induce hallucinations and pcp is like one of the worst drugs to do it with. But hey why not try marijuana if you don't want to use a drug? Says Schwarzenegger, "marijuana is not a drug, it's a leaf"

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article3106904.ece

chrgibson · November 13, 2007

By definition as a psychoactive drug marijuana is
1) A stimulant

2) A depressent

3) A hallucinogen

I think a person who wants to experience a real hallucination without drugs would be extremely hard pressed to smoke enough 'good stuff' without spewing and falling asleep.

Fred56 · November 13, 2007

The "thing" about wanting to find something (out about yourself), that's a different kind of story, it does (I believe), depend greatly on the reason for doing something like that.

If you are really interested about what makes your ´self´ tick, then you should prepare your expectations accordingly, but if you´re just after something better than boredom, it probably won´t be what you expect (either way).

This could explain why back in the day the strong stuff was under the purveyance of a scary guy, who only administered same at special (i.e. initiative, or expiative, or supplicative -of some god or spirit, maybe) occasions.

The kids got the picture that it was special stuff and they weren´t supposed to mess with his ju-ju. Or any of his other stuff...

1veedo · November 13, 2007

I think a person who wants to experience a real hallucination without drugs would be extremely hard pressed to smoke enough 'good stuff' without spewing and falling asleep.

Yeah that makes perfect sense. Marijuana isn't a "strong" or "good" hallucinogen like pcp, shrooms, or salvia but it's non the less at least a week hallucinogen. In reality actually Psychology 8th edition by David G. Myers says marijuana is a "mild hallucinogen."

Fred56 · November 16, 2007

If you sit somewhere quiet and try to concentrate on the area between your eyes, you start seeing stuff (like flashing or coruscating light), it's pretty cool. After a while you start to hear stuff (not thoughts) inside your head. These phenomena are maybe from the pineal gland, but I don't know that is the case (I don't think anyone else does either).

Even just focusing on the sound of your own breathing can be kind of trance-inducing, or whatever you might call it.

These are not imagined or hallucinated, because they make you feel relaxed -they are in fact quite centering (not distracting) and help your focus. The more often you meditate like this, the more stuff happens, but you have to give it a good try, as it were.

borodin · December 18, 2007

Nice topic!

About Flashbacks:

Dear Dr. Shulgin:

I have heard that LSD never leaves your body, and can stay in your brain for many years? Is this true, and is this what causes the so called “flashbacks?” Thanks!

-- B & Rhys

Dear B & Rhys:

The myth of the “lingering molecule” of LSD was given support by the Drug Enforcement Administration at a two day meeting in San Francisco, in late 1991. The DEA invited some 200 participants from law enforcement groups (both domestic and foreign) to share information concerning LSD. The law enforcement agents were told that not only was the storage location known (the frontal lobes of the brain) but also the length of time it stayed there (up to twenty years).

“The evidence is all about us,” they were told. “The indiscriminate use of LSD in the Summer of Love (in the 1960s) has led directly, through the re-release of these hidden-away molecules and the resulting flashbacks, to the hordes of the homeless, the psychotic, and the disenfranchised here on the streets of San Francisco.”

The flashback phenomenon with LSD is rare but real. An auditory or visual clue can bring back a passing memory of an earlier experience. The residue of any tangible quantity of the chemical itself, in the brain or blood of the user after 24 hours, is, however, total nonsense.

-- Dr. Shulgin

http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/shulgin/adsarchive/lsdflashbacks.html

A flashback is a normal phenomenon in human mind. How many times just a smell or a sound is needed to bring back a forgotten child experience/situation ?

But LSD in the brain after 40 years? That isn't science!! Like a free radical?? )