Any way to induce hallucination without drugs?

[Mr Skeptic]

Well, as we all know, when somebody is suffocating, the best thing to fix it is a kitchen knife.

 

I think this one is more to do with proving darwinian evolution.

 

You mean this kind of darwinian evolution?

 

http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin2008-14.html

[iNow]

You mean this kind of darwinian evolution?

Precisely!

[falcon9393]

i heard about sounds that give the same effect as drugs you can download them and they come in like every drug pot, cocaine, heroine ect... maybe they stimulate the brain waves or something like that. anyone else hear about that sort of thing???

[Mr Skeptic]

i heard about sounds that give the same effect as drugs you can download them and they come in like every drug pot, cocaine, heroine ect... maybe they stimulate the brain waves or something like that. anyone else hear about that sort of thing???

 

Sounds are able to modify our brainwave patterns to some extent (I think that's related to the interconnectedness of the brain, so that inducing neuron activity in the brain portions dedicated to hearing induces some similar waves in the rest of the brain). There's a reason that music can be relaxing or agitating or otherwise change your mood.

 

This also sounds like the safest thing anyone has suggested thus far.

[hippieaze]

i heard about sounds that give the same effect as drugs you can download them and they come in like every drug pot, cocaine, heroine ect... maybe they stimulate the brain waves or something like that. anyone else hear about that sort of thing???

 

wow, seriously?! I've never heard of that.. that's crazy!!

Where did you hear this? I want to know more about this

[antimatter]

Well, as we all know, when somebody is suffocating, the best thing to fix it is a kitchen knife.

 

I think this one is more to do with proving darwinian evolution.

 

Or it's proving the irrationality brought on by mis-use of drugs, either one is fine

[Rev Blair]

Or it's proving the irrationality brought on by mis-use of drugs,

 

If the purpose of ingesting the drugs is to induce irrationality, is that mis-use? Is a little, relatively controlled, irrationality necessarily a bad thing?

 

Do drugs necessarily induce irrationality? A lot of writers, artists, musicians and even everyday people have produced some pretty amazing work while under the influence of one drug or another.

 

Just to give an example that's blasting out of my stereo right now, Pink Floyd's "Several Species of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together in Cave and Grooving with a Pict." Okay, I don't how stoned they were when they made it, but it certainly didn't come from sitting around and drinking warm milk. The song has an infectious beat and an internal logic that kind of reaches out and slaps you in the face.

 

For another example, read Hunter Thompson's work. He was a good writer, straight or stoned, but the stuff he wrote when he was stoned has a kind of beat to it that makes it flow a lot better. It's a little harder to read, a little less factual, often very dark, but in the end it hit the truth more often.

 

That's another problem with these "non-drug" ways of inducing hallucinations...they take the art out of it.

[pioneer]

A hallucination is a dream we have when we are awake. Both come from the unconscious mind and both trigger the sensory parts of the brain internally instead of externally. In other words, light enters the eyes and impinges on the brain to create an awareness of the stimulus. The hallucination skips the eyes and goes right to the part of the brain the eyes also uses. The result is one can see the dog wearing a hat. The dog part enters via the eyes and hat part is added internally, for laughs.

 

One way to induce an hallucination is to go to a magic show. Your eyes will see what may not seen possible. What the magician is trying to do is limit the sensory input data, with smoke and mirrors, so the impossible seems to be possible. Where the hallucination comes in is the person who sees part of the trick in their imagination, which is not technically entering the eyes. This is a good hallucination which allows one to figure out the trick. One may have to back reason to avoid the stigma of having an hallucination. In this case, the ones who are have these hallucination are the only one seeing reality.

 

This is why philosophers often struggle with, "what is reality". They are aware of the internal extra, which many people collectively hallucinate. But if everyone is on the same page it is called reality. That type of collective hallucination is treated differently than if only one person is doing it solo. These are the same, but solo could spoil intellectual magic tricks if the word got out that internal is adding to external.

[Ladeira]

Yes, there's a possibility:

 

There's a free software which offers 'song doses' that makes people feel like who used drugs (including illegal ones).

 

I guess it's a cool stuff... they say it's something like brain waves and things like that.

 

The official website is :: http://www.i-doser.com

 

Good Luck!

[antimatter]

If the purpose of ingesting the drugs is to induce irrationality, is that mis-use? Is a little, relatively controlled, irrationality necessarily a bad thing?

.

 

 

The point of ingesting drugs is not to induce irrationality, but rather to escape, or to feel/experience things you wouldn't normally.

Irrationality isn't something you should strive for...

[Rev Blair]

The point of ingesting drugs is not to induce irrationality, but rather to escape, or to feel/experience things you wouldn't normally.

Irrationality isn't something you should strive for...

 

Isn't it? It's been a while, but my memories are of it kind of cleaning out the pipes. Not an escape, but a willingness to let go a little bit for a short time. To see things from a different perspective. There isn't anything rational about what you think and see when on those drugs though, just weirdness.

[1veedo]

Has [buddhist] meditation been suggested yet? Not exactly an LSD hallucination but your sense of size and location in space can be altered. This is something you have to practice through.

[antimatter]

I've actually never heard of that before.

How drastically can it be altered?

[1veedo]

I've actually never heard of that before.

How drastically can it be altered?

Through meditation? It depends on how much you dedicate yourself. I've been meditating off and on for years, and have been going steady for a while. In many ways it can be similar to a drug experience. States of euphoria aren't uncommon, but the trick is you cant actually search for it; it's more of a by-product (this can be your goal I guess but during meditation if you "chase" after it you'll usually lose your meditative state). During meditation you can experience a sense of infinity; both the infinitely large and the infinitely small. Your body or parts of your body get really large or really small and you can experience like a vastness around you. This is all science of course (mris have been done on mediators before) but science agrees that Buddhist practice can be very beneficial. The state of euphoria I think is called piti (the wiki page I saw on a bb.com forums a long time ago). The "hallucination" is mainly an experience of infinity and/or a destruction of your "ego" (nothing at all to do with Freud, it's called ego death). Also you can find yourself floating or moving through space.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piti

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_death

[Taktiq]

In my opinion, based on personal experience...there is no safe and reliable means to induce a hallucinatory experience outside the use of narcotics. And even then, I would advise you to approach with caution.

 

While one can argue for sleep deprivation, I experienced hallucinations due to this during my in-processing days at boot camp. Being a former raver and user of high-powered synthetic hallucinogens, I found the sensation (tactile and aural) that it was raining inside the quarterdeck to come nowhere close to what I had experienced while doing LSD, LSA, Salvia divinorum, psilocybin, etc.

 

The use of a fever can and does induce hallucinatory states as well. I've experienced that too but, raising ones body temp to such a degree to induce that would be extremely dangerous physiologically. Just read the many stories of what can happen when body temp spikes either naturally (fever, heat stroke) or unnaturally (drug usage).

 

The most legal means would be to take an overdose of diphenhydramine (benadryl), though I do not recommend this whatsoever. Not only can this cause a coma in large enough doses. It can also cause liver failure. Not to mention that doctors have yet to understand the leathal dose in human subjects. The hullucinations caused by this can be quite real and terrifying...I won;t go into specifics but I'll say that after years of ingesting LSD at parties, even I found this drug to be very unpredictable and harsh.

 

My question to you is...what benefit will you get from experiencing a state such as hallucination?

Edited June 16, 2008 by Taktiq
multiple post merged

[antimatter]

A good experience.

I myself have never had a hallucination, but from what I've heard, it seems to be ''essential''.

[Taktiq]

A good experience.

I myself have never had a hallucination, but from what I've heard, it seems to be ''essential''.

 

Well, it depends by what you mean "essential". Certain cultures do use hallucinatory or ecstatic-trance states to seek communion with the devine. Most tribal cultures do use hallucinogenic/entheogenic substances to reach these states such as the Mazatecs who use salvia, mushrooms and morning glory as a means to diagnose medical/psychological and spiritual problems with help from the "spirits of the plants". Shamanistic people from areas as far as Russia have used psilocybin mushrooms to commune with these alleged extraterrestrial beings/places.

 

Then again religious groups such as pentecostals and the sufis (the famous whirling dervishes) and jewish mystics studying kabbalah (called merkabulim) use intense prayer/meditation to reach what could be potentially hallucinatory esctatic-trance states. It can be argued, like have stated here that meditation can induce these states and in some respects deep prayer can even be considered a form of mediatation.

 

When considering the term "essential" in regards to these states, it has to be remembered in most cases, such as with these cultural uses, a large amount of training is involved. The exceptions to this are groups like the pentecostals and even vodouisants (vodou practitioners) where the subject tends to get caught up in the ceremony.

 

Honestly (hopefully I don't get flamed for this)...I'm going to risk things and go out on a limb and say that you should just go for it if you want it this badly and I get the feeling you may just want everybody else to justify something you have already decided to do. Since I have done a number of narcotics to induce hallucinatory states, I cannot condemn but I also cannot condone any drug usage (which is the easiest and usually safest route). My advice is this:

 

- Do research on any substance you possibly decide to do and make sure you know what to expect. LEARN EVERYTHING YOU CAN!

- Have a sitter that you trust around to watch over you so that you will remain safe during the trip.

- Allow yourself plenty of time to have the experience and then the comedown.

[1veedo]

I have a friend who swears by using shrooms at least once in your life. Surprisingly it isn't directly harmful (long-term) unless you use it like everyday (can cause hppd). Usually visual drugs are worse for you than non-visuals eg where you actually hallucinate in the sense that you see things or your vision is directly altered.

 

You say outside of drugs self-induced hallucinations can be dangerous, Taktiq, but I seriously doubt meditation is dangerous. Of course meditation isn't the same kind of hallucination you get with sleep deprivation, fever, lsd, or anything else, it's mostly a perceptual change of your location in space and the size of things, similar to epileptic auras in some ways, and probably not the same type of hallucination the OP was looking for (eg LSD type hallucinations).

 

Also I have a friend who has used diphenhydramine and he recommends staying away from it. Disassociates in general seem to cause more problems for people than other drugs, eg salvia or pcp. I have used salvia legit 20x though and found the experience enlightening, but it's seriously something you cannot be prepared for. I'm not a drug person so that's just my opinion but before I started learning about some of this and trying salvia for myself I had a completely different idea about what a hallucination would be. Your entire state of consciousness, your awareness, changes, and then you have hallucinations.

[Taktiq]

You say outside of drugs self-induced hallucinations can be dangerous, Taktiq, but I seriously doubt meditation is dangerous. Of course meditation isn't the same kind of hallucination you get with sleep deprivation, fever, lsd, or anything else, it's mostly a perceptual change of your location in space and the size of things, similar to epileptic auras in some ways, and probably not the same type of hallucination the OP was looking for (eg LSD type hallucinations).

 

 

Obviously, you either midread both of my responses or I didn't make clear what I was saying. I meant overall, drugs, legal and illegal, are usually, in comparison to the other means listed to induce hallucination (ie...sleep/oxygen deprivation, fever), the safest and easiest route. I already stated that, 1) meditation/ecstatic trance to induce a state usually requires large amounts of training and, 2) spiking of the body's temp has proven dangers.

 

As far as meditation being dangerous, I personally do not find it to be as I have been a practitioner since I was 19 (I'm 32 now) nor did I ever state that I felt it to be dangerous. But as an aside, according some some, there are practices in meditation (kundalini rising) that have been alleged to be dangerous, but I was not including thoses views here.

[1veedo]

That's what I figured. Some forms of meditation I've heard can be dangerous. Usually "de facto" when discussing meditation people are referring to buddhist meditation, even though it's usually referenced by it's specific name (eg mindfulness). Not that they have a monopoly on it or anything.

[Demonslayer]

Is there a method for hallucinating? Instead of using pyschedelic drugs like shrooms, acid, etc.

 

Is there a way where u dont need drugs to make u hallucinate?

 

Why i ask this? Because i want to experience hallucination, i want to know whats it like, visual and auditory, and other hallucinations.

 

Is there anyway to induce it?

I think the main problem with your "quest" is that you do not understand what a hallucination is. This is mostly due to the governments scare-tactics (seeing monsters and talking hot-dogs) and Hollywood's poor depiction of hallucinations. The only thing that I've seen that comes close is the scene from "Fear and loathing in Las Vegas" were the floor of the casino starts to flow with a ever-changing pattern.

True hallucinations have no basis in the real world, they are constructed by your own mind and often seem extremely real, and therefore also scary.

The classic psychedelics like LSD, peyote, cannabis and mushrooms usually only cause illusions or distortions of real sensory input.

It is also very seldom the case that "hallucinations" are experienced without a profound change in how the world is perceived.

(Closed-eye-visuals on shrooms are my favorites since they only bring forth what my mind produces.)

Open-eye-visuals are nearly always only distortions of real sensory input.

I have had visual "hallucinations" after smoking Yopo seeds (contains bufotenine (Is also found in toad skin)) and this gave no psychedelic "feel", and it was extremely boring (even though the intertwining circles of glowing beads are beautiful). The best part of hallucinogenics is the shift in consciousness.

 

Every non-drug hallucination-inducing technique described in this thread is horrendously more risky than trying drugs. Meditation will only bring you as far as the alternative consciousness-part of tripping. Laughing gas is very safe, but it too is a sort of drug. But laughing gas is more of a dissociative drug than a hallucinogenic drug.

Hallucinogens have their own small differences. LSD and psilocybin-mushrooms are essentially the same, though I feel the body-load of mushrooms add a real quality to the trip, while LSD feels too chemically "clean".

Datura and related plants are too dangerous to play with, they last too long, and they have really uncomfortable side effects.

Salvia is just TOO weird to do with any regularity.

 

Hallucinations do not come in clear cut categories of visual, auditory, tactile or emotional. It is a symphony of experience that is a lovely thing if you use it correctly. A psychedelic experience is NOT entertainment, it is a trip within your own mind, and not everybody is ready to accept what they find in there.

 

One salvia experience that was really disturbing involved many sorts of hallucinations together with a total shift in perception of reality.

When you use psychedelics it often feels like you are awakening from a dream, this is especially true of salvia.

I felt the usual sideways gravity (which is totally weird) and then was twisted round my axis by a sort of clinically cold tornado. Giant invisible razors cut me into 2-inch salami slices (a real tactile feeling, but not painful). I was then transferred onto a two-dimensional glass-tile wall, were every tile contained a full image of me. Lastly I felt as if I was the surface of a wall and was interrupting the five small gnomes that create reality. They were all upset that I was able to see what reality really was. One of them tried to convince the others that I should not be allowed to return to what we call reality, but the others were more laid back arguing that no-one would believe me anyway.

The strange thing about this is that many people have this exact trip. There is a video on youtube called "salvia trip to hell" that accurately depicts this hallucination.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQ2Q4GELpoo

 

LSD, pot and mushrooms usually give a more gentle trip in which you usually are aware that it is only a trip. But you are really missing the point by thinking that a psychedelic trip is about the hallucinations.

 

The things you are looking for can regretfully not be found without the use of "drugs". If there was such a technique it would certainly be illegal as well. Drugs aren't outlawed because they are dangerous, they are outlawed because they change your way of thinking.

The reason why the government lies about drugs is that the truth is not very scary.

The worst part about government "information" is that it is actually quite true and accurate when it comes to hard drugs like heroine, crack and meth, but no-one believes them anymore when their lies about weed and hallucinogens are exposed.

 

I do agree with the person here that said that the nearest legal thing to a drug-induced hallucination is dreaming. In fact it is frighteningly similar to salvia.

A full blown hallucinogenic experience is theoretically possible by training oneself to change ones own state of consciousness, but this clearly will take years of practice. This is proven by flash-backs and HPPD (no drug is present when one experiences a flash-back). It is the brain that produces hallucinations, not the drug. There is no visual hallucinations contained in drugs, it is wholly an effect of the mind.

 

Why would anyone want to be not in control of themselves and their life. I had visual and tactile hallucinations once due to a high temperature with severe influenza - I didn't like it at all.

What makes you think you have control in the first place?

You only have influence over your life, not control. You may seem to control your mind, but it is your mind that controls "you".

There is no danger in releasing control over your mind, cause the impression that you have control is just an illusion.

 

Doing it voluntary is completely different from experiencing it without choice the way you did while sick. But the fact that you fear losing control is a good indicator that you may have problems achieving or dealing with such a experience.

 

This is why philosophers often struggle with, "what is reality". They are aware of the internal extra, which many people collectively hallucinate. But if everyone is on the same page it is called reality. That type of collective hallucination is treated differently than if only one person is doing it solo. These are the same, but solo could spoil intellectual magic tricks if the word got out that internal is adding to external.

And how can you be sure that "other people" aren't just a hallucination you are having? It wouldn't be strange if they were agreeing with you about what reality is, if they are your hallucination.

The problem with reality is that you can never be sure if there really is an external world since everything you see, feel, hear, is created within your mind. Sensory input may be an illusion. Try salvia and you'll get the idea. It doesn't have to be real just cause it seems like it.

 

The point of ingesting drugs is not to induce irrationality, but rather to escape, or to feel/experience things you wouldn't normally.

Irrationality isn't something you should strive for...

These are feeling/experiences you have trained yourself not to experience from a very early age. Can your mind really produce something that is harmful for your mind?

Rationality is a laughable concept when you are on shrooms, it is revealed as self-deceit.

Edited June 23, 2008 by Demonslayer

[combine12365]

The only way to truly hallucinate or "trip" without the probable chance of organ damage is to consume tryptamine-based hallucinogens (LSD, psilocybin mushrooms, DMT). Oxygen deprivation, sleep deprivation, and dehydration all carry heavy risks, while tryptamines have been shown to cause negligible, if any, brain or organ damage when used responsibly (i.e., not taking 10 hits of acid every weekend). The biggest danger with tryptamines is the psychological stress the experience can inflict on the user, so one should only take them if they are in a comfortable setting with trustworthy company. Never underestimate a psychedelic drug. Trust me on that.

[blazarwolf]

I didnt read anything on this post, just not in the right mindset... Ill put in my 2 cents anyways. Around 18-19 I got obssesed with becoming a composer of orchestral music (scores, symphonies, whatever). I thought it would be an easy way out to life, amongst other pleasures I thought it would bring me. Melody is great in consiousness but an onsomble (or assembly, never had to spell that word!) was difficult. And then something happend. It was when I was nearing sleep, not quite there yet, but a mind very empty and ready to enter into. It was (and is, apon luck) as though I could hear and create things without even thinking about it. It still is one of the most mysterious things that has happend to my mind. Things were just very relaxed, as though there was nothing for my mind, but to be pieces of the orchestra. Very much later on I was reading on Salvador Dali. I remember something about him doing very much the same, but in a disiplined manner invoving some mechanism that would wake him up (some wieght that fell on him maybe). Anyways just my 2 cents.... yes ive smoked alot of weed, but only done shrooms once, and I didnt hallucinate... (choose dammage to your body on your own accord please!).

[insane_alien]

seems a lot of people posting to this thread haven't taken in something made clear in the title.

 

withOUT drugs.

[blazarwolf]

^

l

l

seems a lot of people posting to this thread haven't taken in something made clear in the title.

 

withOUT drugs.

 

Yeah, I know what you mean! I got through a few pages, but it felt way to reminicent of Errowid to finish (been there done that). Oh and I didnt mean I got stoned when I did the Dali thing, that would negate the purpose. Id just fall asleep .

A few other ideas:

 

What I saw one person touch on is called "Lucid Dreaming" that is bringing yourself to awareness and controlling your dreams. Been there inadvertantly a few times myself, then I tried and tried to use the techniques to get back and have a fuller expirence, but to no sucsess, it requires alot of disipline.

 

The closest thing in my life to true hallucination comes from situations when im walking alone in darkness through tight trees, in areas where there are alot of large animals to jump out at you. I sometimes start to hear, see, turn and twitch at things that arent but a branch falling (if even that).

 

The whole starvation/dehydration thing has been used by some native peoples of the world, its usually accompanied by along journey and physical isolation. The buddah (and many other monks) for a time perferd to just fast. Your brain requires alot of energy, and when it starts to run out wierd things happen.