Kedas Posted October 8, 2003 Posted October 8, 2003 I think you go a bit too far if you say that 'All experiences are real' I would say all experiences are experiences notting more notting less. besides which kind of definition of 'real' do you have?
DarkApostle Posted October 8, 2003 Posted October 8, 2003 Kedas said in post #26 :I think you go a bit too far if you say that 'All experiences are real' I would say all experiences are experiences notting more notting less. besides which kind of definition of 'real' do you have? Real;Being or occurring in fact or actuality; having verifiable existence. Experience; An event or a series of events participated in or lived through. Definitions provided by http://www.yourdictionary.com All experiences are real my friend.
NavajoEverclear Posted October 8, 2003 Posted October 8, 2003 Yes i guess all experiences are real--- they are really things being percieved by your brain, however that comes about. But i think what Kedas is trying to point out is that what ever that reality is, you cannot assume certain laws apply to it: if this happens, this follows, by law of this reality. If you cannot know how this reality is generated, you cannot know that one day it will not begin to defy all its previous 'laws'.
Skye Posted October 9, 2003 Posted October 9, 2003 DarkApostle, lived through doesn't mean verifiable. You can't verify a personal experience with anyone else.
Kedas Posted October 9, 2003 Posted October 9, 2003 DarkApostle said in post #27 : All experiences are real my friend. I don't want to sound offensive but I'm choosing my own friends. I don't agree and I don't think that I'm able to convince you.
atinymonkey Posted October 9, 2003 Posted October 9, 2003 Just to butt in for a second, I think this can be cleared up with another dictonary reference http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=existentialism The literal meaning of words bears no relation to the perception of reality. Unless Samuel Johnson had some deep undiscoved view of the universe of which we are not aware. As I remember he didn't even include the word 'sausage', so I doubt it.
YT2095 Posted October 9, 2003 Posted October 9, 2003 Predictive cognicence(sp?) If a man were standing in the middle of a road with a car approaching at 100mph and is now 5 feet away from the man, would it be predicting the future to say he will get run over? the answer`s a bit Yes and No in my opinion. it would indeed apear to the logical and most likely conclusion as to the mans fate though. using this simple model, gives us an insight into what could be happening in our dreams, only we would take into account MANY more factors, factors that we`re not even aware of consciously because our subconcious filters them out and leaves us with the info that we need, otherwise we`de go crazy if we actualy payed attn to everything around us at the same time, so it`s filtered and stored. various scenarios are played out in our dreams using this stored info, it isn`t any wonder really, that on occasion we will actualy get something right, using these "forgoten/ignored" factors. this is just a breif idea of the way I see it 1
Kedas Posted October 9, 2003 Posted October 9, 2003 About if he will be run over that depends on the fact if he is standing in the path of the car. (he could stand 5feet beside it) BTW even if he is on that path he could be standing behind a metal wall. (just teasing I know what you mean I see science as a big prediction machine and we are constantly working on it to make it work better.
DarkApostle Posted October 9, 2003 Posted October 9, 2003 Skye said in post #29 :DarkApostle, lived through doesn't mean verifiable. You can't verify a personal experience with anyone else. I agree, you can only varify things for yourself to yourself, all else is faith. However once lived through and it is experienced then bedrock! You can't deny what you experience because to do so is stupidity. A good friend of mine once said, "it takes willingness to accept the truth after we have discovered it". There is also what I like to call reasonable evidence. For example, if some idiot decided to jump off a building ten stories high and died, there is enough evidence to support that if you jump off of a building that high you will die. I'd rather not try to experience this but go with the evidence. This is called being wise. I never stated that what I experience must be real to you in order for it to be real to me, I stated all experiences are real.
DarkApostle Posted October 9, 2003 Posted October 9, 2003 Kedas said in post #30 : I don't want to sound offensive but I'm choosing my own friends. I don't agree and I don't think that I'm able to convince you. Not a problem, I just simply ment my friend as a means of courtesy. You can't convince me because by stating experiences are not real is like stating that getting burned in the fire when standing in it is not real. I cannot deny that which I verify.
DarkApostle Posted October 9, 2003 Posted October 9, 2003 NavajoEverclear said in post #28 :Yes i guess all experiences are real--- they are really things being percieved by your brain, however that comes about. But i think what Kedas is trying to point out is that what ever that reality is, you cannot assume certain laws apply to it: if this happens, this follows, by law of this reality. If you cannot know how this reality is generated, you cannot know that one day it will not begin to defy all its previous 'laws'. What law be of hire than the law of self preservation? Law is established to uphold order, no law would mean chaos and no universe can stand on chaos. All law is established around survival of the fittest, thus the food chain. I do know how this reality is generated. I wouldn't make such statements if I didn't.
NavajoEverclear Posted October 9, 2003 Posted October 9, 2003 I still agree that experience is real---- whatever is actually causing it is literally causing certain pathways and electrical impulses in the brain. Unless you want to dispute that such thing as a brain exists, and if so then theres nothing to argue for either side. But this is only varifiable to oneself (as already said), cuz how do you, whoever reads this know that you aren't the only one that exists? I'm not sure if i agree with you last statement about laws. While i agree with that and believe in it, in that sense you might say i know it, but i dont think i can proove it.
Kedas Posted October 10, 2003 Posted October 10, 2003 Lets assume a few things: Your child wakes up in sweat from a nightmare. What do you say to him/her? - Don't worry this experience wasn't real,... - Don't worry this was a real experience,... - Don't worry it wasn't real,... - Don't worry it's not an experience,... - Don't worry it's just an experience,.... - Don't worry I will ask some advice to some people from a scienceforum.
YT2095 Posted October 10, 2003 Posted October 10, 2003 You say: Don`t worry it was just a dream, now finish your Vodka and get back to sleep or I`ll get Uncle Kedas to tell you a story J/K
Guest Stinke Posted May 20, 2005 Posted May 20, 2005 I've been seeing 'visions' myself many years now, and about 6 months ago I started to write them down every morning when I saw something that looked like a 'vision'. Few of these things have happened in real. This is really weird I must say. I even once saw Lotto numbers in my dream, I played them, but that week they weren't the right numbers. Next week they were and I didn't play them. After that I've been hoping to see that kind of a dream again. When and if I do I will play them many weeks, until I win(or not)
Hellbender Posted May 20, 2005 Posted May 20, 2005 Buddy, the visions don't seem to be working for you. I humbly suggest not putting any more faith in them (or the lotto).
Kedas Posted May 20, 2005 Posted May 20, 2005 I've been seeing 'visions' myself many years now, and about 6 months ago I started to write them down every morning when I saw something that looked like a 'vision'. Few of these things have happened in real. This is really weird I must say. I even once saw Lotto numbers in my dream, I played them, but that week they weren't the right numbers. Next week they were and I didn't play them. After that I've been hoping to see that kind of a dream again. When and if I do I will play them many weeks, until I win(or not) Next time you see lotto numbers email them to me then I can verify if they were correct. One other thing if you see in your dream a guy running away with your money don't believe it it's just a vision.
YT2095 Posted May 20, 2005 Posted May 20, 2005 KEDAS!!!!! ) long time no see dude, hope all`s cool with you and yours anyway, Kedas do ya rem that thread I made ages ago about the loto and getting people to "think of the numbers" and then they came true about 3 weeks after I stopped using them (paying for it). effectively, it`s OK Knowing the future, but a TIME INDEX would be so much cooler! I Know that one day the Earth will be consumed in fire and heat from the sun... it doesn`t help the poor sods a few days earlier tho` with space ships that COULD HAVE gotten away! silly example sure, but it makes a point
HonorableOne Posted June 3, 2005 Posted June 3, 2005 Howdy, I'm new today to the scienceforums.net. I googled "Do dogs bark at ghosts" and found NavajoEverclears question because I had a dream my dogs were barking at incoming ghosts which they usually do when I'm wide awake. This was a "tension reducer" type dream, as the incoming ghosts always seem to come at me exactly when I get relaxed when I first lay down, no matter what time of day. It's uncanny! Or is this a dream aboout the future, cause I know it's going to happen again?
SHtRO Posted June 9, 2005 Posted June 9, 2005 On Sept.6 or Sept.7, 2001, I had a nightmare that Jerusalem was going to be destroyed by a nuclear bomb in the very near future. The dream manifested from reading newspaper accounts of our lackluster diplomacy and all the racism and hatred in the region, combined with my Christian upbringing repleat with multiple readings of the Old Testament and Revelations. I was so disturbed by the dream I called one my U.S. Senators to share the experience. I guess I was wrong, though...but not by much...
d.claunch1994 Posted August 7, 2012 Posted August 7, 2012 I'll admit it may be a form of deja vu, but in saying that stuff about statistics is a misunderstanding of the phemomenon--- in some cases of it i have solidly remembered having the dream, thinking about it when i woke up and what else happened the day i had it. So yeah it could be an illusion, but it is to an extent beyond dejavu, more along the lines of hallucination (well thats not what you'd call it but its like that: being indistinguisable from reality, yet infact is a mental fabrication). Some of the memories that were brought back to life with living the dream were so real i could not reason I might have drawn quick conclusions. While it could have been an illusion, it would have been one that actually rewrites my memory as far as i know---- just to say it is a different thing than deja vu. Deja vu being simply a feeling that it happened before, this is an actual memory, indistinguishable from my real ones. I know what you mean by this, because it happens to me. I will dream some random situation (usually not significant) but nonetheless a situation. I will think nothing of it, as I figure it is just another dream, but days, weeks, months, or years later the dream will come true. There is an overwhelming feeling when I realize I remember it. So in a sense it is reverse deja vu. You dont experience the situation then experience a similar situation, its an exact replication of what happened in your sleep right? I know what you mean by this, because it happens to me. I will dream some random situation (usually not significant) but nonetheless a situation. I will think nothing of it, as I figure it is just another dream, but days, weeks, months, or years later the dream will come true. There is an overwhelming feeling when I realize I remember it. So in a sense it is reverse deja vu. You dont experience the situation then experience a similar situation, its an exact replication of what happened in your sleep right? And there is also faces that you may have NEVER seen, places you have NEVER been, conversations that have NOTHING to do with a previous conversation. It is completely original, as if your brain made it up right then and there, however you experience it in full after some undetermined amount of time. There is never any hints to what day this may be, or what time. Some of these dreams are also 3rd person point of view for me.
Moontanman Posted August 7, 2012 Posted August 7, 2012 This is a true story. My best friend woke up from a terrible nightmare at around 3am on the morning of September 11, 2001. He was dreaming that he was visiting New York when the World Trade Centers came under attack. In the dream he was killed as pieces of the building fell on him. When this actually occured hours later he was in complete shock. I suppose this could be explained as coincidence, but I believe there is probably a far more complex explanation, of which I am unable to provide. Navajo, I'm from San Francisco, if that's what you mean. What is morphic resonance? And Kaezon, interesting theory. My friend and I have speculated as to the cause of his "prophesy", and something similar to your theory has come up in conversation. We are convinced that what he experienced that morning must have been felt by others as well. I imagine an event of that magnitude would send quantum shockwaves far and wide. what i meant is its interesting how new members are joining who happen to share these experience--- this site isn't THAT huge, it seems too coincidental that you would come across it at the same time as such discussion is going on, and you happen to be one who has experienced the phenomenon, which i don't think it that common in the total population. I don't know who first officially came up with the term morphic resonance, its basically the theory that somehow members of a species communicate thoughts psychically, without limits of space. There isn't a testable proof of by what structures this is possible, so that is open to your own beliefs, cuz i don't know how you'd detect the truth anyway. But the evidences are things such as how pyramids where built by people on different contintents all at around the same time, even though physical communication could not have occured. Could also explain things such as people with similar mentalites 'cooincidentally' run into each other. Like here. Lots of phenomenon could have to do with whatever this is. A guy named Rupert Sheldrake wrote some books on it, you can check em out if you want, i never read them so i cant tell you. a few thought: - A written record is needed otherwise you could just be fooling youself. (this was also said earlier) - When I thought about the relation between a computer and a brain I thought maybe a way to know if you are in a dream is to overload the 'image processor'. The 3Dworld that you are in isn't really there it is more or less recreated so changing view fast will most likly wake you up. The problem is you have to realize that you are sleeping before you will try it. but if effective then I can prove that I'm not asleep now. -about predicting: if you predict something then it's likely that you didn't predict it based on that event but that you received info from a other source that caused the event in the first place. - About the twin towers: if you record everyday what people had nightmares of then you will probably always have a group of people that dreamed about a twin tower attack. If it really happens then those people will think they predicted it. I know this is thread necromancy but I had the 9/11 dream as well, the night before it happened, but to be honest i figured it was some sort of odd deja vu because the dream didn't come to me until i heard the news reports as it happened. But I knew a man who about a week before it happened sat up in bed and said "they are going to knock down the twin towers" this is significant because he was in the last hours of his life, dying from cancer. Before he went back to sleep he became quite agitated over this, wanting to warn someone about it. Until the 9/11 attack no one had a clue as to what he was talking about and considered his words to be nonsense... quite possibly his words were just garbled dreams and only matched the available data after the fact but several of us had that hairs standing up on the back of our necks feeling from it. I regularly have dreams from the point of view of a person it is happening too. Difficult to explain but also not information that can be used because the dream doesn't come to me until after I hear of the event happening, I have come to think it is a bit like deja vu and more of your brain using current info to "remember" something it didn't really know until you heard of it. The friend who struggled in his last hours of life with that dream is difficult to explain.
iNow Posted August 8, 2012 Posted August 8, 2012 Most likely this is the result of a coding error between short and long term memory wherein certain emotional states cause a flawed "tag" to be associated the event... the scenery... the feelings... the smell... the sounds... as if it had already happened in the past while in REM... The "semi-conscious" nature of this flawed coding is likely what ties it to the dream feeling (since similar coding / connection flaws and changes are experienced while dreaming). It's the higher cortical part of our brains trying to "make sense" of the coding breakdown that makes us think "I dreamt this in the past." Similar reports have been described with pilots who pass out due to high G forces... The go unconscious for 20-30 seconds and have strange dreams. Those dreams are the brains attempt to make sense of the disconnect between the brain and body when blood fails to carry enough oxygen to the brain. I suspect something strongly similar happens with the feeling of deja vu. That... or we fell into a wormhole when these events occurred. It could be something cosmic like that, but that's somewhat less likely IMO.
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