Irony in Islam

[ski_power]

I don't know about killing Muslims but I personally feel those who have wronged others bigtime should be erased from the face of this planet.

 

I personally donot follow either Christianism, or Islam or even Jew(just in case that decides to join this thread). So I have no idea about the exact workings of each of them. I somewhat agree with bettina, but killing islam in it's entirety is taking it too far. I mean just kill them who've screwed other peoples' happiness for no reason, no matter what their religion, but targetting only one specific religion is bad. It's not like all muslims are bad, it's the classic case of a bad fish spoiling the pond.

 

**** reverse has got his 786th post *****

(you'all know it right it's considered auspicious/holy by Islams)

 

Ok no back to serious stuff. Targetting one religion is wrong wrong and wrong. I don't think Mohd. would have wanted it this way, but yes the veils and all are very bad. But then again there are the other kind of muslims very very liberal(it's said that Mohd.'s Brother didn't like his closed ideas and forwarded his own religion, very open minded i think they're called aga khans).

 

How would the Christians like it(ok now dont flame me please coz it's just an arguement), if an islam dude said to (gulp)kill all christians just because some oddball christian went and bombed the islamic religious centre...

So, it isn't like you need to wipeout everyone in the world. Just get even with that guy....

 

 

I'm again stressing that what I say is not pointed towards any one religion but instead towards the crime.

[reverse]

Hey...What are we talking about now....capital punishment....

 

this thing is all over the place.

 

I personally find that cartoon offensive....it's in extremely poor taste to wear purple pants with a purple shirt.

 

what were you thinking.

 

Ps. isn’t Mumbai unusual because it is a Portuguese settlement...In India...and an Info town as well...that must be a curious place.

 

now back to "Irony in Islam"...

[pecker66]

Not me... For example, I want a child murderer who has admitted he raped and killed a little girl ..http://blog.lawinfo.com/2005/03/21/sex-offender-charged-with-rape-death-of-9-year-old-lundsford/[/url'] to die. Period. No sympathy, no last minute phone call, no forgiveness, nothing...... I just want him dead.

Bettina, you seem to understand how some these Muslims feel - its just that you haven't made the connection yet. For some people, blasphemy is worse than murder and once you understand that this is true for them, you should be able to see how strongly they feel. (Rem. understanding != condoning)

 

To me, you are displaying some of the same hard-line, moral absolutisms that some of these Muslims are showing.

 

I don't agree with either you or these Muslim (or any other) hard-liners, but I sure understand how you feel. I empathize more with you than I do with them, but that is probably because I am more in touch with my feelings w.r.t. rape and murder of a young girl and (as an atheist) less with the attachment to religious dogma.

 

I can only guess why the general response by Muslims here in Australia has been much less violent - it may be an infusion of Australian culture/justice system/minority status. Perhaps multiculturalism is working better here. I hope it is not just our (IMO over-reactive) new terrorism/incitement laws.

 

Tolerance first, free-speech next, religious dogma a poor third.

[ski_power]

isn’t Mumbai unusual because it is a Portuguese settlement...In India...and an Info town as well...that must be a curious place.

 

Portuguese? No,no....I think that's pondicherry.

Info town...kind of. Bangalore has taken that title

But there's one thing over here...the Sensex (ie stock market) Heart of the country

 

Yeh Hai Mumbai Meri Jaan

(trans. lit. This is Mumbai my life)

[swansont]

From a totally cold hearted point of view' date=' there are a few advantages to the death penalty above the cost savings in prison holdings.

 

For example, if you consider that the criminal behavior has a genetic root...then the death penalty removes the gene set from the general population.

 

In fact it might be a good idea to kill all the children of a criminal, to be on the absolute safe side.

 

Secondly, if the criminal behavior has a family environmental root...then by killing all the siblings, the social structure is also removed from propagation..

 

But it might be a good idea to kill the parents of a criminal as well.

They must have had a hand in setting the social scene for the behavior.

 

Trouble is...I don’t think I'm cold hearted enough to want any part of this practical yet horrific solution.[/quote']

 

 

I truly hope that this is all sarcasm.

[Tiger's Eye]

Not one bit. Because it doesn't relate. Killing a little girl for lust is much different than beheading people for religious reasons, or spitting on allah, or drawing a cartoon. Show me in my posts where there is a similarity.

 

While I definitely feel that a pervert who rapes a little girl should be punished for all eternity, the way you express (and have expressed) yourself gives off the impression that you would want to kill this man for your own sense of satisfaction. Isn't that what he did? Kill for satisfaction? Personally, I think that this worse than killing in the name of religion (Not like I support it; it's likely to be an excuse for people who may just thirst for blood, which is the worst). Your feelings are your feelings, but......it doesn't sit too well from the way I see it.

 

Edit... I'll say this again. If we don't stop the spread of the Islamic religion' date=' its going to kill us, and I do mean kill us.[/quote']

 

Like some posters have already said, this is really harsh. It's the kind of feeling that would promote ethnic (or in this case, religious) cleansing, isn't it? There ARE lots of Muslims in this world who are NOT like the extremists that we see on TV.

[reverse]

I truly hope that this is all sarcasm.

 

No, it's a totally different rhetorical device including contraposition and exaggeration to convey an idea.

 

Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.

A little poem, a little jump, a little snake down your trousers?

[swansont]

No, it's a totally different rhetorical device including contraposition and exaggeration to convey an idea.

 

Exaggeration is one thing, but unsubstantiated speculation and falsehoods are another. You would have to demostrate e.g. that it is cheaper to execute (it depends on how you do the accounting) and that crime is genetic (some behavior may have a genetic component, but the two are not synonymous)

 

Minutus cantorum' date=' minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.

A little poem, a little jump, a little snake down your trousers?[/quote']

 

Close: A little song, a little dance, a little seltzer down your pants

[bascule]

Well, here's some irony for you. Iran's response to the Mohammad cartoons is... to draw some cartoons about the Holocaust. Because making fun of the systematic murder of 6 million people is the same thing as making fun of a prophet of a religion, right?

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/iran_cartoons

 

My friend made this in response:

 

[Tiger's Eye]

Well' date=' here's some irony for you. Iran's response to the Mohammad cartoons is... to draw some cartoons about the Holocaust. Because making fun of the systematic murder of 6 million people is the same thing as making fun of a prophet of a religion, right?

[/quote']

 

This is so stupid. Why must Iran try to prove a point that's just another way of picking a fight? Completely unnecessary.

[padren]

Well' date=' here's some irony for you. Iran's response to the Mohammad cartoons is... to draw some cartoons about the Holocaust. Because making fun of the systematic murder of 6 million people is the same thing as making fun of a prophet of a religion, right?

[/quote']

 

Honestly any response with pen and paper is far far far more civil than anything they do with torches, guns and knives. I applaud any move in that direction.

[Bettina]

Well' date=' here's some irony for you. Iran's response to the Mohammad cartoons is... to draw some cartoons about the Holocaust. Because making fun of the systematic murder of 6 million people is the same thing as making fun of a prophet of a religion, right?

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/iran_cartoons

 

My friend made this in response:

 

[img']http://smokedot.org/~chris/lolz.jpg[/img]

 

I have no problem with those two images since both are true. I say go ahead and print them.

 

Bettina

[Bettina]

While I definitely feel that a pervert who rapes a little girl should be punished for all eternity' date=' the way you express (and have expressed) yourself gives off the impression that you would want to kill this man for your own sense of satisfaction. Isn't that what he did? Kill for satisfaction? Personally, I think that this worse than killing in the name of religion (Not like I support it; it's likely to be an excuse for people who may just thirst for blood, which is the worst). Your feelings are your feelings, but......it doesn't sit too well from the way I see it.

 

No. He killed for satisfaction. I would kill him for revenge. I'm petite build, but if I was bigger, and someone slapped me, I would ask why. If I got slapped again, I would slap them back. However, if someone killed my family, I would seek revenge and kill them. I wouldn't ask first.

 

Geez, I can't believe I'm saying these things...

 

 

Like some posters have already said, this is really harsh. It's the kind of feeling that would promote ethnic (or in this case, religious) cleansing, isn't it? There ARE lots of Muslims in this world who are NOT like the extremists that we see on TV.[/quote']

 

I understand that and thats not what I was implying. The islamic religion is flawed and dangerous and all I see is death.

 

Here....read this.

http://www.users.mis.net/~dcgay/islam.htm

 

I also said this before, that there are two muslim girls in my school that I wanted to be friends with. They immeditely gave me literature and all they wanted to talk about was their religion. All I wanted was new friends but they wouldn't have it, so I walked away. I tried hard too but I couldn't get past the barrier. They are the only two people in my school that I don't talk to. Sad.

 

Bettina

[reverse]

Aww cut with the sick pictures already.

have some taste would you.

 

 

 

 

 

Exaggeration is one thing' date=' but unsubstantiated speculation and falsehoods are another. You would have to demostrate e.g. that it is cheaper to execute (it depends on how you do the accounting) and that crime is genetic (some behavior may have a genetic component, but the two are not synonymous)

[/quote']

 

 

All rhetoric isn’t forensic or deliberative.

the point was to illustrate our internal conflict between compassion and revenge.

[ecoli]

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/679820.html

 

Now we get to learn how translucently racsit some of these Muslims are. Another version of "protesting" the cartoons, Iranian newspapers are holding a contest to make a cartoon poking fun at the holocaust... how the Iranians learned how to equate the Danes with the the holocaust is anyone's guess.

[Bettina]

More here...

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10705393/

 

Islam is so full of peace...

 

Bettina

[ecoli]

Honestly any response with pen and paper is far far far more civil than anything they do with torches, guns and knives. I applaud any move in that direction.

 

I'd agree with you if I didn't think the Iranian cartoons would perpetuate the violence

[padren]

I'd agree with you if I didn't think the Iranian cartoons would perpetuate the violence

 

I am somewhat concerned about that, but I think what will happen (though I can easily be wrong) is that most jewish groups including most israeli ones, will simply condemn the holocaust cartoons as being groseque, but they won't riot and kill people over it.

 

They'll attack one of the most sensitive topics for jewish people (the holocaust) with words and cartooning, and end up witnessing how they handle such BS in a much more sane manner.

[Zero Wing]

This is why I hate religions, Islam being the most infantile. The only thing they've done is run around the desert destroying each other and anybody else that doesn't agree with them (jewish population) for the past 3,000 years. This is rediculous - esspecially when concerning something so simple. God doesn't exist, and whatever the religion's aims are, (i'm not sure even they know anymore) they can't be achieving them.

 

All the muslim world (at least in the middle east) seems to be doing is pissing people off, and jumping at every little excuse to go be-head somebody. Excuse me for this last blunt comment, but they're seeming more and more like just a giant waste of space.

[ecoli]

I am somewhat concerned about that, but I think what will happen (though I can easily be wrong) is that most jewish groups including most israeli ones, will simply condemn the holocaust cartoons as being groseque, but they won't riot and kill people over it.

 

I sincerely hope (and believe) that you are right.

 

God doesn't exist, and whatever the religion's aims are, (i'm not sure even they know anymore) they can't be achieving them.

 

not really the right thread for a comment that strong, but you do make a good point with the latter part of the statement.

[JohnB]

I also said this before, that there are two muslim girls in my school that I wanted to be friends with. They immeditely gave me literature and all they wanted to talk about was their religion. All I wanted was new friends but they wouldn't have it, so I walked away. I tried hard too but I couldn't get past the barrier.

Bettina, ever tried talking to fundamentalist Christians? You'll get a similar response.

 

What I was getting at before, which you seemed to miss the point of is this;

You are quite happy to demand death for someone who transgresses the laws of your nation, or who in your opinion, deserves it. Yet you are not willing to grant exactly the same right to others. That was the irony.

 

In the case in point, the protestors are demanding death for people who, in their opinion deserve it, you have also made the argument that you demand death for some people who, in your opinion deserve it. From where I sit, you're both wrong.

I am somewhat concerned about that, but I think what will happen (though I can easily be wrong) is that most jewish groups including most israeli ones, will simply condemn the holocaust cartoons as being groseque, but they won't riot and kill people over it.

 

They'll attack one of the most sensitive topics for jewish people (the holocaust) with words and cartooning, and end up witnessing how they handle such BS in a much more sane manner.

Padren, I agree. I think this idea will backfire badly.

[5614]

I think the stupidest thing I saw was in The Times (UK) today, it was a real photograph from one of the 'protests' aka riots and it showed a man protesting wearing a pretend suicide bomber jacket.

 

Now remember that this 'protest' was against the cartoon calling a Muslim a suicide bomber, the guy was wearing a freaking suicide bomb jacket... he's proving the cartoon 100% correct. It's just soo dumb and is making the situation worst.

 

Fair enough they dislike a cartoon, but to then go on violent riots/protests in which they (a) prove the cartoon correct and (b) make other people dislike them even more... it just annoys me.

[Tiger's Eye]

I think the stupidest thing I saw was in The Times (UK) today' date=' it was a real photograph from one of the 'protests' aka riots and it showed a man protesting wearing a pretend suicide bomber jacket.

 

Now remember that this 'protest' was against the cartoon calling a Muslim a suicide bomber, the guy was wearing a freaking suicide bomb jacket... he's proving the cartoon 100% correct. It's just soo dumb and is making the situation worst.

 

Fair enough they dislike a cartoon, but to then go on violent riots/protests in which they (a) prove the cartoon correct and (b) make other people dislike them [i']even[/i] more... it just annoys me.

 

All these violent protests are soooooo disappointing. The reactions to the cartoon have been uncalled for. Okay, these people have the right to be upset, but they are taking it way to far in threatening people's lives. And Iran? What is up with that? The Holocaust is not something to poke fun at or take lightly. Iranian newspaper is just dying to provoke people. Ugh. I feel bad for its civlians who have no part in all of this......

[padren]

All these violent protests are soooooo disappointing. The reactions to the cartoon have been uncalled for. Okay, these people have the right to be upset, but they are taking it way to far in threatening people's lives. And Iran? What is up with that? The Holocaust is not something to poke fun at or take lightly.[/b'] Iranian newspaper is just dying to provoke people. Ugh. I feel bad for its civlians who have no part in all of this......

 

I think many muslims are as sensitive about Islam being portrayed as an inherently violent religion as jewish people are about the holocaust.

 

I don't see the difference between mocking the holocaust, mocking child abuse in the catholic church, or mocking Mohammad.

 

 

There is a special danger though I guess in those portrayals of Mohammad. Everytime western culture and the world in general absorbs one more "islam is thrives on bombs" meme the millions of peaceful muslims in areas like Indonesia and elsewhere loose a little of their hold on their religion to militant muslims.

Here you have militant islam trying to take over the faith, and here are western cultures completely happy to say as far as we are concerned, they already have won.

 

There more we accept the Fawells and Robertsons as representative of Christiantity in the US and believe we have to deal with those types to deal with christians in America, the more marginalized moderate christians become.

 

So I guess, having thought about it, I can see the danger in allowing oneself to generalize (memes are infectious) about a group, but I am at more appalled by people killing over insults, which is even more destructive.

[reverse]

Don’t quote me on this because I haven’t fully researched it...but

 

I was under the impression that there was a division Islam...one large liberal tolerant group...and one much more intolerant smaller group.

 

also

 

I'm pretty sure that around the 11th century and for about 200 years,

Christian Knights wearing the red cross marched to take the holy lands from Muslims.

 

Comprised of French German ...etc the knights finally captured Jerusalem... where a production line of Muslim Execution began.

 

 

The knights Templar had a red cross on a white background...while the Knights of St John marched under a white cross on a black background.