Closing Threads

[Jim]

I have to admit I'm tired of investing time and thought in a subject only to have it get closed because someone determines one or two people (perhaps myself, I don't know) have gotten emotional.

[Sayonara]

If a thread was closed by an administrator you can be sure that it wasn't simply a matter of emotions.

[Bettina]

I have to admit I'm tired of investing time and thought in a subject only to have it get closed because someone determines one or two people (perhaps myself, I don't know) have gotten emotional.

 

Jim, Nobody is more emotional than me, and my threads were never closed so that can't be it. Maybe you should PM the admin and ask why. They are professional here and I'm pretty sure they would respond.

 

Bettina

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

I've tried that before, and got absolutely no response.

[Jim]

Jim' date=' Nobody is more emotional than me, and my threads were never closed so that can't be it. Maybe you should PM the admin and ask why. They are professional here and I'm pretty sure they would respond.

 

Bettina[/quote']

 

Well, the closing note on the monitoring thread said:

 

Okay, I've just about had enough of this bickering. Frankly, you're all sounding like a bunch of 12 year olds, and from the standards of posting around here that's not something I've come to expect. I also do not like the condescending attitudes that are being slung around. Clearly some people have problems here.

 

Go and blow off some steam elsewhere. I'm just about sick of it.

__________________

Dave

Mathematics Forum Moderator

 

Frankly, I'm not sure I want to invest time in a place where action can be taken that peremptorily. There are some great people here but life is too short to put myself in a position where a stranger can cut off discussion with a tone like an irate parent.

[Severian]

Frankly' date=' I'm not sure I want to invest time in a place where action can be taken that peremptorily. There are some great people here but life is too short to put myself in a position where a stranger can cut off discussion with a tone like an irate parent.[/quote']

 

Sorry to hear that you are leaving us. You will be missed. It was nice knowing you, and I hope you can find what you are looking for elsewhere. Bye!

[Dave]

I closed that thread simply because of the blatent abuse being slung around in it. I certainly don't mind people debating with passion, but that thread in particular was in violation of the rules around here. Frankly, it had got to the point where the arguments were going around in circles and nobody was willing to accept the other side's viewpoint. That simply isn't productive to the well-being of the forum, and I'd rather close the thread than have people at each other's throats for no good reason.

 

Yes, the message I left at the end of that thread was rather abrupt and I should perhaps have been less annoyed when I wrote it. However, I read through the entire thread, and saw a perfectly good thread go down the tube simply because people are not willing to consider other people's opinions. That is not what SFN is about.

 

Usually I post some kind of "warning" before I close the thread (so that it can be recovered by the participants) but as I've not been around a whole lot recently, I didn't have the time to go through and check everything. So, I implore all of you to consider what you're saying before you say it. I don't like closing these threads, but if they reach the same level of abuse as before, then I will.

 

(Also, if you have a problem with what I've said, I'd much rather you PM me about it in future. Contrary to what others might believe, I tend to reply to all of my PMs immediately if I have the time.)

[Sayonara]

Frankly, I'm not sure I want to invest time in a place where action can be taken that peremptorily.

"Peremptorily" implies that no other consideration or action was taken before the thread was closed, which is not the case. We have a system that works and the fact that you don't see it does not mean that it is not there. You are by no means the first person to participate in a thread that winds up being closed, and Shiva knows you will not be the last.

 

There are some great people here but life is too short to put myself in a position where a stranger can cut off discussion with a tone like an irate parent.

But not so short that you couldn't find time to post a thread to complain. Why not drop the dying swan routine, and start a new thread on the topic that learns from the lessons of the one that was closed?

[Jim]

"Peremptorily" implies that no other consideration or action was taken before the thread was closed' date=' which is not the case. We have a system that works and the fact that you don't see it does not mean that it is not there. You are by no means the first person to participate in a thread that winds up being closed, and Shiva knows you will not be the last.

 

 

But not so short that you couldn't find time to post a thread to complain. Why not drop the dying swan routine, and start a new thread on the topic that learns from the lessons of the one that was closed?[/quote']

 

Yes, Sayanora, I felt I put enough time into this board to expend another 2 minutes explaining why I was leaving. No, I will not devote myself to substantive posts on a thread only to have it end with a condescending lecture demeaning all that was written.

 

The most uncivil comments I've seen have come from admin. Dave's closing post said that we were "bickering," sounded like a "bunch of 12 year olds," were "condescending," and that some of the people "have problems." Sayonara, in this post, characterizes my concerns as a "routine."

 

Such condescension from a poster I can laugh off but coming from someone with the authority to close threads or ban a poster is not acceptable. There are some sincere, intelligent, well read, and, from what I can tell, all around neat people on this board. OTOH, it's been quite some time before I've sat still for a lecture from someone who thinks they have some kind of parental authority. I may accept that from a really good client but I won't volunteer for it from strangers.

 

To the posters here, I wish you well. Take care.

[5614]

I've tried that before, and got absolutely no response.

That's normally because the mods/admins do not feel they need to explain themselves to you (or whoever).

[timo]

That's normally because the mods/admins do not feel they need to explain themselves to you (or whoever).

Bit of a hasty statement considering that Dave posted a message why he closed the thread and also also gave an explanation just three posts above yours.

[Phi for All]

Yes, Sayanora, I felt I put enough time into this board to expend another 2 minutes explaining why I was leaving. No, I will not devote myself to substantive posts on a thread only to have it end with a condescending lecture demeaning all that was written.

The fact that 15% of your time here at SFN was wrapped up in one thread that got closed may justify the huff in which you find yourself storming off, but I feel you're leaving for the wrong reasons.

 

I think tempers have calmed now. You should accept Dave's offer of speaking privately about your reasons for re-opening the thread. I've seen other members successfully plead their case regarding uinfinished discussions and none of them were lawyers like you.

[Sayonara]

Yes, Sayanora, I felt I put enough time into this board to expend another 2 minutes explaining why I was leaving.

And that's good, if a touch contradictory.

 

No, I will not devote myself to substantive posts on a thread only to have it end with a condescending lecture demeaning all that was written.

You can't be held responsible for the actions of others, and the admins and mods will not fail to take action in a badly deteriorating thread just because you are posting in it. The same will hold true (or close, at any rate) on any forum with a strict policy on post quality and rational discourse.

 

Therefore the best you can hope for is to stop putting effort into a thread when you see it degrading into babble or name-calling, and wait for the issue to be resolved before expending more effort.

 

Even better, since VBulletin has a post reporting system that is designed to free the staff from the necessity of reading every single post, become a member who not only cares about the community (even if it's only your own input that concerns you) but has an active hand in keeping it civil and sensical. If you see a thread that you have invested time and interest in is about to become a debacle, and you don't want this to go on until the entire lot is closed, alert the staff with a post report. The system is designed to allow you to include your specific concerns.

 

The most uncivil comments I've seen have come from admin. Dave's closing post said that we were "bickering," sounded like a "bunch of 12 year olds," were "condescending," and that some of the people "have problems."

Admins are humans too, and it is totally understandable for an admin who puts as much time and effort into this community as Dave to get exasperated when he sees two long-time members (who are both staff, by the way) behaving like children.

 

Not that that makes it all okay, but Dave has already said - twice now, and publically - that he feels his choice of phrase was not particularly apt. What more do you want, and why should you get it?

 

Sayonara, in this post, characterizes my concerns as a "routine."

No, I characterised the way you expressed them as a routine. Please don't attempt to change the meaning of my words to my face; anyone here can tell you that's the fastest way to lose sympathy when expressing a grievance.

 

Such condescension from a poster I can laugh off but coming from someone with the authority to close threads or ban a poster is not acceptable.

You accepted the rules just by joining. By all means dispute and debate them, but do not attempt to dictate what they "should be".

 

There are some sincere, intelligent, well read, and, from what I can tell, all around neat people on this board.

Yes, we are lucky enough to have a small but stable and well-educated core of users. The reason for this is that we (by which I mean both the staff, and those core users) have worked very hard over more than four years to establish the structured rules and etiquette systems that keep the science and debate areas productive and (relatively speaking) crap free. It's those systems that you are taking issue with. Perhaps taking a step back and cooling down might help you see that.

 

OTOH, it's been quite some time before I've sat still for a lecture from someone who thinks they have some kind of parental authority.

I can assure you that Dave has no delusions about the nature of his authority. It is not for you to invent character traits on his behalf.

 

I may accept that from a really good client but I won't volunteer for it from strangers.

Then I wish you the very best of luck as you wend your merry way through life. It will certainly be an eventful journey.

[Sayonara]

I am now closing this thread as it no longer serves any useful purpose.

 

If that is a problem, feel free to PM me.

 

If there are any systematic suggestions relating to this topic, then they should go where they belong: In the suggestions forum.