The Truth about 9/11

[Animal]

I believe the building came down hours later on purpose because so much damage had been done by the fires in the lower levels. If it was a controlled demolition.. so what?

 

Do you want to believe George Bush was behind all of it? Do you even know why you're so upset? I don't.

 

Unfortunately it does seem that money may have helped Silverstein make a decision on pulling building 7 though..

 

From Wikipedia:

 

Larry Silverstein, backed by a number of investors, signed a 99-year lease for the World Trade Center complex just seven weeks before it was destroyed in the September 11, 2001 attacks. The deal was described in a press release on July 24th, 2001, as:

 

"Silverstein Properties, Inc., and Westfield America, Inc. will lease the Twin Towers and other portions of the complex in a deal worth approximately $3.2 billion – the city's richest real estate deal ever and one of the largest privatization initiatives in history.[1]"

The lease agreement applied to World Trade Center Buildings One, Two, Four and Five World Trade Center, and about 425,000 square feet of retail space. Silverstein put up only $14 million of his own money [2] and the $3.2 billion deal closed on July 24th. Larry Silverstein already owned 7 World Trade Center which was also destroyed in the attack.

 

Following the attacks, Silverstein was awarded an insurance payment of more than three and a half billion dollars to settle his seven-week-old insurance policy[3]. In addition, the Silverstein group sued the insurers liable for the World Trade Center for another three and a half billion dollars, claiming that by an obscure clause in their contract, the two planes constituted two separate terrorist attacks[4]. In total, Silverstein was awarded nearly $5 billion in insurance money following the destruction of the Twin Towers[5].

 

In March 2006, during talks about the future of the World Trade Center site and the division of roles in the re-development for the Port Authority and Silverstein, New York State officials charged that Silverstein's greed was responsible for the breakdown in talks just minutes before a midnight deadline[6]. The Port Authority described Silverstein’s last-minute proposal as “outrageous,” and more:

 

"'It was clearly an indication of the greed involved and not really in the public interest," said Port Authority Vice Chairman Charles Gargano. "This is not a traditional real estate project. This is a project where thousands of people lost their lives. This was an attack on New York City and America, and we expect Larry Silverstein and his group to understand the importance of this public project.'"

A spokesman for Silverstein said that he was willing to negotiate at any time, and saw the deadlock as temporary.

[ecoli]

To Cap'n Refsmmat:Am I supposed to comment on this stupidity?

 

Rust... in a fire... with no water... within hours... on all 47 columns... making holes and sharp edges...

 

Rusting doesn't require the presence of water... seeing you limited understanding of science' date=' maybe you should re-evaluate who you are calling "retarded" - which you shouldn't even be doing. I'm almost surprized that you've reverted to flaming and name calling upon discovering your ideas are wrong. Sounds like your fighting a loosing battle.

 

No offense but, your theory SUCKS.

talking to yourself again?

 

By Ockham's Razor, Scientific Method, and Common Sense, explosives are the best explanation.

Technically a gov't conpriracy wouldn't really be covered under Occam's Razor, in this case. you seem to be strecthing for the most ridiculous answer possible.

 

 

Explosives perfectly explain everything.

 

Just because you keep saying it, doesn't make it so.

[JustStuit]

Yelling doesn't make it anymore plausible or right, in fact it lacks credibility.

[ashennell]

And how do you explain this:

 

- pools of molten steel found at the base of the collapsed twin towers and WTC7 weeks after

- seismometers recorded huge bursts of energy' date=' caused unexplained seismic "spikes" at the beginning of each collapse

 

There must've been explosives in the basements.[/quote']

 

If you think this constitutes some form of logical arguement then I don't think that there is anything we can do to hlep you here.

 

The seismic spikes have all ready been explained, on the same site I provided a link to a number of times!!! You obviously arn't readig this. These answers are from the people who produced the original seismic data used by the CT crowd.

[bascule]

I DON'T CARE ABOUT THE TWIN TOWERS.

 

I'M TALKING ABOUT WTC7.

 

NO PLANE HIT WTC7.

 

HOW DID WTC7 COLLAPSE?

 

I'm going to go with "Two of the largest buildings in the world collapsed nearby"

[insane_alien]

I'm going to go with "Two of the largest buildings in the world collapsed nearby"

 

Yeah that would put a lot of stresses on the structure of WTC7 similar to an earthquake(i don't think NYC is an earthquake zone so it probably wouldn't have dampers) This could concievably lead to collapse if you add in the fire which would further weaken the structure. it only needs a small part to let go and it can bring the whole thing down. that would also explain the kink in the building when it collapsed.

[bascule]

That's why the "You wouldn't ordinarly expect blah to happen, therefore, conspiracy!" arguments (or rather, non-sequitur fallacies) are just ludicrous... 9/11 was a thoroughly unprecedented event.

[ecoli]

Yeah that would put a lot of stresses on the structure of WTC7 similar to an earthquake(i don't think NYC is an earthquake zone so it probably wouldn't have dampers)

 

There actually is a fault in New Jersey, but the city was not built with this in mind (which is unfortunate)

[abskebabs]

I've just had a weird thought! If the US govt really attacked it's own building, wouldn't they have at least bothered; with the largest military budget in the world by far, to make a missile that looked, to all intents and purposes like a plane? I don't really have an opinion on this, I guess I just wouldn't bank money on it being a conspiracy. Having said that I'm not certain[you never can be], and also; what's worse, thinking you're paranoid or thinking you should be?

[ecoli]

how could you make a missle that looks like a plane? It would have to be an enormous missle.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Or you could take an old airplane and add remote controls.

[abskebabs]

I believe the building came down hours later on purpose because so much damage had been done by the fires in the lower levels. If it was a controlled demolition.. so what?

 

Do you want to believe George Bush was behind all of it? Do you even know why you're so upset? I don't.

 

Unfortunately it does seem that money may have helped Silverstein make a decision on pulling building 7 though..

 

 

You may find this interesting.

[abskebabs]

I strongly urge anyone interested in this thread to have a good look at this.

It not only covers the subject of this thread, but also reveals a lot of information about Zionism and its influence on America.

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/WTC_STF.htm

[bascule]

I strongly urge anyone interested in this thread to have a good look at this.

It not only covers the subject of this thread' date=' but also reveals a lot of information about Zionism and its influence on America.

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/WTC_STF.htm[/quote']

 

As if one conspiracy weren't enough, you're throwing another into the mix eh?

 

I think I've got it all figured out now...

 

Bush, working with his connections in Skull & Bones, leveraged his Illuminati connections who in turn pulled strings through the Rothschilds (Jews!) to fund a black ops staged terrorist attack against our own country, using brainwashed zombie terrorist hijackers who had been put through the CIA's mind control program.

 

Got it.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

The fact that they use this quote:

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."

makes them less credible.

Just because some truths pass through those stages (Einstein was not ridiculed or violently opposed) does not mean that if your opinion is ridiculed, you are right. Fallacy number one, right there, without the content even starting. Bad sign.

[The Peon]

I'm going to go with "Two of the largest buildings in the world collapsed nearby"

 

My brother was working right outside NYC in the NJ area at the time, and when the trade centers fell he felt a tremble in the ground as they collapsed. I am interested to know the richter scale number the collapse caused.

 

As if one conspiracy weren't enough' date=' you're throwing another into the mix eh?

 

I think I've got it all figured out now...

 

Bush, working with his connections in Skull & Bones, leveraged his Illuminati connections who in turn pulled strings through the Rothschilds (Jews!) to fund a black ops staged terrorist attack against our own country, using brainwashed zombie terrorist hijackers who had been put through the CIA's mind control program.

 

Got it.[/quote']

 

OH NOES!!! ThE world is CominG to an END!!!?? ? *runs out of the room screaming doom and wielding a butcher knife*

[ecoli]

I strongly urge anyone interested in this thread to have a good look at this.

It not only covers the subject of this thread' date=' but also reveals a lot of information about Zionism and its influence on America.

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/WTC_STF.htm

 

The last part seems wildly off-topic. And, it's never advisable to post a link without discussing in at least some level of detail. I, for one, will not touch that link. How many other people haven't visited that site?

[abskebabs]

The last part seems wildly off-topic. And, it's never advisable to post a link without discussing in at least some level of detail. I, for one, will not touch that link. How many other people haven't visited that site?

 

Sorry about, that. I can't say I can take everything on this website seriously but if you scroll down past the opening statement and "the dancing israelis" subsection, you'll find historical information about zionism which is what interested me.

 

It offers a lot of historical information about zionist lobbies and the movement for the creation of israel etc, and how this has for a long time played a part in determining political decision making in Europe and America. They do end up alleging that the zionist movement had something to do 9/11. I'm not going to comment on that, but I do think political lobbies like the zionist ones are powerful and dangerous, as well as being detrimental to the world's political stabillity as a whole.

[abskebabs]

THE CURIOUS COLLAPSE OF THE TWIN TOWERS

 

The government/media approved version of events insists that the fires in the World Trade Center burned so hot that they caused steel supports to melt and buckle, thus triggering a total collapse of the towers. This is a strange theory for a number of reasons:

 

1. The architects who designed the World Trade Center designed it to withstand the direct impact and fuel fire of a commercial airline crash. Aaron Swirsky, one of the architects of the WTC described the collapse as "incredible" and "unbelievable." 96

Lee Robertson, the project's structural engineer said: "I designed it for a 707 to hit it. The Boeing 707 has a fuel capacity comparable to the 767." 97

 

2. The history of high-rise building fires provides no case histories of buildings collapsing due to steel beams melting from a fire.

 

3. The collapse of both towers were both perfectly symmetrical and methodical. The straight down collapse was identical in appearance to a well engineered, controlled implosion. A demolition company could not have done it better. Now that we know that all one has to do to bring a tall building straight down is set a fuel fire in it, the well trained experts who work for demolition companies should all be out of a job by now!

 

Even a layman with no explosives background should be able to see this. But many specialists in the explosives and structural engineering have also made this observation and commented on these inconsistencies. After the WTC collapse, the Vice President of New Mexico Tech, Van Romero, gave an interview to the Albuquerque Journal. He stated plainly that he believed that the WTC collapse was too methodical and that explosive devices must have been placed in key points of both buildings. Romero said:

 

"It would be difficult for something from the plane to trigger an event like that. It could have been a relatively small amount of explosives placed in strategic points. One of the things that terrorists are noted for is a diversionary attack and a secondary device." 98

 

In that same interview, Romero revealed that he was in Washington DC when the attacks took place. He and a colleague were there to discuss defense research programs for New Mexico Tech. A few days after his interview, Romero abruptly changed his opinion and told the Albuquerque Journal that he no longer believed that bombs brought down the towers. 99 Romero, who relies upon the Zionist occupied Pentagon for funding, had suddenly flip-flopped and joined the "melted steel" theorists.

 

There is more than just my own common sense and Romero's expert opinion to support the belief that the towers were imploded from within. Several witnesses and survivors reported hearing bombs going off inside the World Trade Center. Louie Cacchioli is a firefighter with Engine 47 in Harlem, New York. Cacchioli told People Magazine the following:

 

"I was taking firefighters up in the elevator to the 24th floor to get in position to evacuate workers. On the last trip up a bomb went off. We think there were bombs set in the building." 100

 

Now this whole controversy between the "melted steel" scenario and the detonation scenario is one that could be very easily resolved. All we have to do is dig up the steel beams and examine each and everyone of them. If an explosive device caused the steel to fail, there will be tell-tale indications for the engineers to see. But if it was intense heat that caused the steel to "melt" or "buckle", there will be tell-tale signs of that as well. All we have to do to put an end to this controversy is to closely examine the steel. Right?

 

Well, don't hold your breath. That's never going to happen. Thanks in large part to Time Magazine's "Man of the Year 2001", New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani, the steel beams were quickly recycled before investigators even had the chance to look at them! A media darling and lifelong supporter of Israel, Saint Rudy Giuliani made sure that the "smoking gun" evidence was destroyed and right quick too. Much of the steel was recycled in America, but an additional seventy thousand tons of WTC steel was sold to Metals Management - a New York company with a jewish (Zionist?) president named Alan Ratner. Ratner then turned around and shipped the WTC’s steel to China and India for recycling! 101

 

China Radio International’s English Edition also reported:

 

"New York's Metals Management is among the firms taking steel from the huge project to clear Ground Zero. The company says it has bought 70,000 tons of scrap from the ruined twin towers. Some of the scrap has been shipped across the Pacific to Asian, including China and India. Among the consignments of scrap are the "very dense" steel girders from Ground Zero, which could finally yield 250,000 to 400,000 tons of scrap for recycling." 102

 

Imaine that! The largest criminal investigation in history and the investigators weren't even permitted to see the most important evidence of all - the steel! During the time that Saint Rudy and Ratner the Recycler were destroying evidence, many of the most respected engineers in the country complained not only about the recycling, but also about the Federal government's suffocating control of their investigation. On December 25, 2001, the New York Times ran a story about the frustrations of some of the engineers who were called in to study the cause of the collapse:

 

"Interviews with a handful of members of the team, which includes some of the nation's most respected engineers, also uncovered complaints that they had at various times been shackled with bureaucratic restrictions that prevented them from interviewing witnesses, examining the disaster site and requesting crucial information like recorded distress calls to the police and fire departments..." 103 (emphasis added)

 

They made their concerns known publicly. Bill Manning, editor of the 125 year old Fire Engineering magazine, noticed a strange difference between the WTC investigation and other major fire investigations in New York City’s history. Manning wrote:

 

"Did they throw away the locked doors from the Triangle Shirtwaist fire? Did they throw away the gas can used at the happy land social club fire?...That's what they're doing at the World Trade Center. The destruction and removal of evidence must stop immediately." 104

 

One investigator told the New York Times:

 

"This is almost the dream team of engineers in the country working on this, and our hands are tied," said one team member who asked not to be identified. Members have been threatened with dismissal for speaking to the press. "FEMA is controlling everything," the team member said. 105

 

Dr. Frederick W. Mowrer from the Fire Engineering department at the University of Maryland told the New York Times:

 

"I find the speed with which important evidence has been removed and recycled to be appalling." 106

 

Finally, the Times story made this interesting little revelation about St. Rudy the Recycler:

 

"Officials in the mayor's office declined to reply to written and oral requests for comment over a three- day period about who decided to recycle the steel and the concern that the decision might be handicapping the investigation.." 107

 

It is a very odd form of science that the government and some of its house scientists practice these days. Without a shred of physical evidence, these modern-day alchemists have been able to "prove" their theory fire caused the towers to collapse. This appears to be yet another monstrous lie. Why else would you destroy the "melted steel"? Ask Rudy.

There's more, but this is one part of the article that directly links in to our discussion.

[abskebabs]

By the way the numbers are links to newsites from where the information was obtained. They can be viewed on the website.

[abskebabs]

Also they say that Bin laden was framed[i'm not quite sure about that!] and that most of the hijackers were still alive. It also provides photos of the supposed real hijackers.

[bascule]

THE CURIOUS COLLAPSE OF THE TWIN TOWERS

 

The government/media approved version of events insists that the fires in the World Trade Center burned so hot that they caused steel supports to melt and buckle' date=' thus triggering a total collapse of the towers. This is a strange theory for a number of reasons:

 

1. The architects who designed the World Trade Center designed it to withstand the direct impact and fuel fire of a commercial airline crash. Aaron Swirsky, one of the architects of the WTC described the collapse as "incredible" and "unbelievable." 96

Lee Robertson, the project's structural engineer said: "I designed it for a 707 to hit it. The Boeing 707 has a fuel capacity comparable to the 767." 97[/quote']

 

It's likely it was designed to withstand the impact of a 707 configured for domestic flight, which has a 15,000 gallon fuel capacity [http://www.boeing.com/commercial/707family/] wheras the towers were hit by a 767 configured for transcontinental flight, which has a 24,000 gallon fuel capacity [http://www.boeing.com/commercial/767family/]. Furthermore, the fuel tanks of these planes were more or less full.

 

2. The history of high-rise building fires provides no case histories of buildings collapsing due to steel beams melting from a fire.

 

The history of high-rise building fires provides no case histories of terrorists crashing commercial jetliners with fuel supplies large enough for transcontinental flight into high-rise buildings either. 9/11 was an unprecedented event.

 

3. The collapse of both towers were both perfectly symmetrical and methodical. The straight down collapse was identical in appearance to a well engineered, controlled implosion. A demolition company could not have done it better. Now that we know that all one has to do to bring a tall building straight down is set a fuel fire in it, the well trained experts who work for demolition companies should all be out of a job by now!

 

Not at all. The collapse of the towers was completely inconsistent with a controlled implosion. The towers collapsed because the upper floors collapsed onto the lower floors, causing a top-down collapse which rained debris all over the entire area and created enormous seismic events which were enough to damage a wide radius of nearby buildings, even to the point of collapse. A controlled demolition would involve sequential explosions throughout the entirety of the building designed to minimize the debris shower and impact on nearby buildings.

 

Even a layman with no explosives background should be able to see this. But many specialists in the explosives and structural engineering have also made this observation and commented on these inconsistencies.

 

That's funny, why did the newspapers only quote the ones who corroborate the official story and said the buildings collapsed from a fuel fire? Must be part of the conspiracy.

[ecoli]

Even a layman with no explosives background should be able to see this. But many specialists in the explosives and structural engineering have also made this observation and commented on these inconsistencies.

 

Why the hell do you think the consiracy exists in the first place!!! Laymen with no explosive backgrounds are making inferences without knowing how explosives work. lol.

[abskebabs]

Why the hell do you think the consiracy exists in the first place!!! Laymen with no explosive backgrounds are making inferences without knowing how explosives work. lol.

That was what I pasted from the website, not what I said. By the way I don't personally believe a conspiracy exists, I was simply showing you some information from the site.

[ecoli]

That was what I pasted from the website, not what I said. By the way I don't personally believe a conspiracy exists, I was simply showing you some information from the site.

 

yeah I know... the harshness wasn't directed at you, but at consiracy theorists, sorry.