The Great Error Of Physicists!!!

[tsolkas]

THE "EGG OF COLOMBUS"

 

THE GREAT ERROR OF PHYSICISTS!!!

 

If, the J. P. Cedarholm - C. H. Townes Experiment (1959) is carried out exactly as it is on a moving vehicle (e.g. on an automobile, train, etc) then it will be instantly proven whether Ether exists in Nature or not. Unfortunately, this very simple Physics experiment has never been conducted to this day and this is a great error on the part of physicists!!!

Why, therefore, isn`t this very simple Physics experiment performed so as to demonstrate once and for all whether Ether exists in Nature or not?

Question:

Could there be a reason for its not being carried out?

 

more...http://www.tsolkas.gr/english/english.html

[insane_alien]

Because the michelson morely experiment does it quite nicely

[swansont]

You could do it yourself, if it's so simple.

[m4rc]

The experiment consist of sending signal from one plane A to plane B then from plane B to plane A and seeing if there is any significant difference in the time for light to travel the same distance but in different directions. As mentioned by insan_alien "michelson morely experiment does it quite nicely" as well.

Although I am not familiar with any experiment done with planes, this has been done with satelites. The delays in the incoming timing signal of GPS satelites are used to calculate position. According to all published material on GPS systems, no correction for the movement of the ether is done. Despite this accurate results can still be obtained.

 

So we can conclude that either there is no ether or the GPS sytems makes a correction for the movement of the ether and there's a huge conspiracy to hide the presence of ether from us.

[YT2095]

light should travel at the same speed regardless of how fast it`s being "carried" shouldn`t it?

only the Frequency of the light should change (red/blue shift).

[m4rc]

light should travel at the same speed regardless of how fast it`s being "carried" shouldn`t it?

only the Frequency of the light should change (red/blue shift).

Yes, according to Maxwell's equations on electromagnetism, the speed of light should be constant. This result is not compatible with the concepts of Newtonian mechanics and the concept of an ether. The discrepency between Maxwell's equations and Newtons' mechanics is what compelled Einstein to propose his theory of relativity.

[YT2095]

actualy I don`t really have a problem resolving it with newtonian mechanics (in my own simple way), I just figure that since the photon is massless, Newtonian stuff need not apply.

 

it`s probably the Wrong way or reason to reconcile it, but I`m happy with it for now

[Phi for All]

Why' date=' therefore, isn`t this very simple Physics experiment performed so as to demonstrate once and for all whether Ether exists in Nature or not?

Question:

Could there be a reason for its not being carried out?[/quote']I'm sure there is and it's a very logical, simple one.

 

But, hey, let's all jump to the conclusion that Relativity is wrong and it must be a plot by the global scientific community!

[Blunt]

it is possible to slow light down so it does not travel at C .. some danish sciencist did it..

[Severian]

So we can conclude that either there is no ether or the GPS sytems makes a correction for the movement of the ether and there's a huge conspiracy to hide the presence of ether from us.

 

So its ether one or the other?

[Dave]

Oh dear, that's the worst ether joke I've heard in quite some time

 

Also, I though the correct spelling was aether, or is this some lazy Americanisation?

[Tom Mattson]

I don't know, JC MacSewell had 2 really bad ones on Page 2 of this thread:

 

http://www.scienceforums.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9473

 

[YT2095]

it is possible to slow light down so it does not travel at C .. some danish sciencist did it..

 

that can`t be possible, a Photon will always travel at `c` light can be slowed down though, quite easily, in fact particles (even of mass) can exceed the speed of light, but never `c`

[insane_alien]

YT is correct the photons were till travelling at 300,000,000 ms^-1 (yeah i know its far from exact but its good enough) they were just interupted by atoms.

 

think of the photon as a train that instantly accelerates. It always travels at 1km per second (its a futuristic train ok)

the path it takes is from A-Z. A and Z are 260 km apart and there is a town with a station every 10km. if its stopped at a station it stays for 30 sec

 

if its the express(vacuum) it ignores the stations inbetween and takes 260 seconds to complete the journey.

 

if it stops at all the stations (the medium be it gas liquid or solid) it would take 260 + 24(30)=980 seconds. significantly longer. this gives it an average velocity of 0.265km/s or roughly 1/4 its actual velocity even thoug the train travelled at 1 km/s

 

this is what happens in experiments where light is slowed down.

[[Tycho?]]

it is possible to slow light down so it does not travel at C .. some danish sciencist did it..

 

This is somewhat true. When light is traveling through a medium "like air" it is constantly being absorbed and emitted by the atoms and molecules that make up the medium. Once is has been absorbed, for a short while it is not a photon, it is energy in an electron that is around the atom. This is why it can seem like light slows down. Its not the photons themselves slowing down, its just the light is spending more time being absorbed and emitted, or is taking a longer path.

 

But an individual photon not interacting with matter travels at c, always. This is why c is usually stated "at vacuum" because the speed that light rays move in air or water or whatever is slower.

[kevinalm]

Oh dear' date=' that's the worst ether joke I've heard in quite some time

 

Also, I though the correct spelling was aether, or is this some lazy Americanisation?[/quote']

 

The original spelling was ether. But with the developement of diethyl ether as an anesthetic, some wanted to change the spelling to aether as ether was entering the vernacular, refering to the chemical. The change was never fully accepted as the ether/aether theory died at about the same time. So both spellings are acceptable, although aether should probably be preferred.

[swansont]

The experiment consist of sending signal from one plane A to plane B then from plane B to plane A and seeing if there is any significant difference in the time for light to travel the same distance but in different directions. As mentioned by insan_alien "michelson morely experiment does it quite nicely" as well.

Although I am not familiar with any experiment done with planes' date=' this has been done with satelites. The delays in the incoming timing signal of GPS satelites are used to calculate position. According to all published material on GPS systems, no correction for the movement of the ether is done. Despite this accurate results can still be obtained.

 

So we can conclude that either there is no ether or the GPS sytems makes a correction for the movement of the ether and there's a huge conspiracy to hide the presence of ether from us.[/quote']

 

Two-way satellite time transfer does this as well, and with greater precision. By using a common path you undo errors caused by delays in the atmosphere (in GPS you can account for ionoisphere delays if you use two frequencies, because the ionosphere is dispersive; this will be added to civil GPS and be a part of Galileo. But troposphere delays are only modeled, IIRC). You can do nanosecond transfer or better with TWSTT. AFAIK it's only a Sagnac correction. If I remember to, and have time (as it were), I'll ask about this tomorrow, and see what the limits are on the ether. There may already be a paper on this somewhere.

[swansont]

I confirmed that the timing is sub-nanosecond, and that the Sagnac term is the only relativistic correction you have to make.

 

edit to add: TWSTT is used along with common-view, which is a one-way measurement, with two observers looking at a satellite clock (Usually GPS) and measuring offsets.