How To Make ...

[KFC]

If You Let A Test Tube Of Chlorine Go In A Room And It Smells As Equally Bad As A Room Washed With Bleach, Does That Mean There's The Same Amount Of Chlorine In The Air In That Room?

[RyanJ]

If You Let A Test Tube Of Chlorine Go In A Room And It Smells As Equally Bad As A Room Washed With Bleach, Does That Mean There's The Same Amount Of Chlorine In The Air In That Room?

 

... bleach does not release chlorine normally, if it did you'd have a while lot of problems (Chlorine is very reactive).

 

If it is releasing chlorine its being mixed with some incompatible substance(s).

 

Cheers,

 

Ryan Jones

[KFC]

Is Bleach Fumes As Dangarous As Chlorine Gas?

[RyanJ]

Is Bleach Fumes As Dangarous As Chlorine Gas?

 

It depends on what the fumes actually are - mixing bleach with different chemicals leads to different compounds formed.

 

I really reccomend you don't mix things together unless you are shure what they will do... this gives you an example of some of the nasties formed and some of the results of messing with this stuff.

 

Often, one looks at a bottle of bleach and wonders, 'Why shouldn't this be mixed with ammonia?' If you know how dangerous chlorine gas is to humans (it was used as a chemical weapon during World War I and later by Nazi Germany in World War II), this will be very apparent. This entry will tell of a few reactions that can occur when bleach and ammonia are mixed in various proportions - the release of chlorine gas is just one of these. In the following sections, the header will be the name of the most dangerous compound produced in the reaction shown. Please, do not try any of this at home.

 

Chlorine Gas ([ce]Cl2[/ce])

 

That warning is there to protect you. Household bleach has a chemical formula of [ce]NaOCl[/ce] - that is, one atom each of sodium, oxygen, and chlorine. Its chemical name, for the curious, is sodium hypochlorite. Ammonia has a chemical formula of [ce]NH3[/ce], that is, one atom of nitrogen and three atoms of hydrogen. When these two compounds are combined, the following reaction takes place:

 

[ce]2NaOCl + 2NH3 -> 2NaONH3 + Cl2[/ce].

 

Do you see that [ce]Cl2[/ce] on the right hand side there? This means one part chlorine gas, made up of diatomic (two atom) molecules. It also means that the chlorine gas has been liberated from the bleach, and is quite capable of causing you harm when inhaled!

 

The Pain! The Pain!

 

To understand the effects chlorine gas has on the body, we first need to understand the chemical properties of chlorine, particularly its valence, or number of chemical bonds chlorine can form. Chlorine is in the seventh of the traditional groups of elements, one before the group of inert gases, which, as their name suggests, are almost completely unreactive. Chlorine has seven electrons in its outer electron shell.

 

The Octet Rule states that all elements try to fill in their outer electron shell until they have eight electrons. When a chemical has eight electrons in its outer shell, it is then stable. Being so close to having 8 electrons in its outer shell, chlorine is quite desperate to get that one last electron - and will literally rip other atoms apart to do so. This is what happens to your respiratory system when you inhale chlorine gas. The gas tears into your nasal passages, trachea, and lungs by causing massive cellular damage. Obviously, chlorine gas causes a very painful death.

 

Nitrogen Trichloride ([ce]NCl3[/ce])

 

Another potential reaction, which occurs when a greater amount of bleach is added than ammonia, is this:

 

[ce]3NaOCl + NH3 -> 3NaOH + NCl3[/ce]

 

That's sodium hydroxide and nitrogen trichloride. Nitrogen trichloride is a very toxic chemical to humans, and even if you did get close enough to ingest it, it would probably explode in your face first, as it is also a very volatile explosive. There is little necessity in explaining why that is bad.

 

Hydrazine ([ce]N2H4[/ce])

 

Still another reaction - in three parts this time - can occur, producing hydrazine ([ce]N2H4[/ce], a component of rocket fuel) if you have more ammonia than bleach:

 

[ce]NH3 + NaOCl -> NaOH + NH2Cl[/ce].

 

These two products then react with ammonia as follows:

 

[ce]NH3 + NH2Cl + NaOH ->N2H4 + NaCl + H2O[/ce].

 

One last reaction occurs to stabilise the reagents:

 

[ce]2NH2Cl + N2H4 -> 2 NH4Cl + N2[/ce].

 

This last equation is of particular interest because of the amount of heat it produces. The heat is so great that it usually leads to an explosion.

 

Danger!

 

As mentioned before, this article mentions some very dangerous chemicals. One should not ever, ever attempt to create the chemicals described above as it could result in injury or even death.

 

...Get the point?

 

Cheers,

 

Ryan Jones

[KFC]

That Helps, But I Didn't Have That Much Chlorine More Like A To Milliliter Vial Full. Is Hydrazine A Liquid, I Imagine It Is?

[RyanJ]

That Helps, But I Didn't Have That Much Chlorine More Like A To Milliliter Vial Full. Is Hydrazine A Liquid, I Imagine It Is?

 

It is but seriously you'll be pushing your luck trying to make any. Its not only flammable but explosive so don't even try.

 

Again I'll point out the danger of the compound: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrazine

 

Breathing hydrazines may cause coughing and irritation of the throat and lungs, tremors, or seizures. Breathing hydrazines for long periods may cause liver and kidney damage, as well as serious effects on reproductive organs.

 

Eating or drinking small amounts of hydrazines may cause nausea, vomiting, uncontrolled shaking, inflammation of the nerves, drowsiness, or coma. Hydrazine is found in chewing tobacco and cigarettes.

 

Tumors have been seen in many organs of animals that were exposed to hydrazines by ingestion or breathing, but most tumors have been found in the lungs, blood vessels, or colon. 1,2-Dimethylhydrazine has caused colon cancer in laboratory animals following a single exposure.

 

The Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS) has determined that hydrazine and 1,1-dimethylhydrazine are known carcinogens. The International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) has determined that hydrazine, 1,1-dimethylhydrazine, and 1,2-dimethylhydrazine are possible human carcinogens. The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has determined that hydrazine, 1,1-dimethylhydrazine, and 1,2-dimethylhydrazine are probable human carcinogens.

 

The American Conference of Governmental Industrial Hygienists (ACGIH) currently lists hydrazine and 1,1-dimethylhydrazine as suspected carcinogens, but has recently recommended that the listing of hydrazine be changed to that of animal carcinogen, not likely to cause cancer to people under normal exposure conditions.

 

The False Morel contains the chemical gyromitrin, which is metabolized into monomethyl hydrazine inside the body. Consequently, the toxic effects of this mushroom are the same as with hydrazine poisoning.

 

Your best avoiding trying to make things that can kill you. There are sites out there that sell certain elements / compounds (Not that one obviously) and they do it in a safe way. Buy them don't try and make them - ever - even if you have the equipment there could be unexpected additions to the bleach that could cause problems.

 

Cheers,

 

Ryan Jones

[woelen]

That Helps, But I Didn't Have That Much Chlorine More Like A To Milliliter Vial Full. Is Hydrazine A Liquid, I Imagine It Is?

Making hydrazine out of chlorine bleach and ammonia is not an easy process. The reaction conditions need to be very specific and once you have the hydrazine, you need to isolate it, which is quite hard as well. Isolating pure hydrazine is next to impossible in the homelab, however you can fairly easily isolate the salfate salt of this.

 

The hydrazine synthesis surely can be done, but it is not something to start with if you do not have any experience. Beware, hydrazine is carcinogenic, and also its salts are.

 

Also, the nitrosamines, formed in the reaction between bleach and ammonia are carcinogens as well.

 

KFC, I've mentioned it before, but you seem not to be listening very well. Just shooting random questions at us over here does not make you a better chemist. Grab a good book on the subject and start with the basics.

 

Just mixing chemicals and see what happens is not smart at all. It may hurt you. Besides that, it is much more fun, if you really understand what is going on.

[woelen]

Your best avoiding trying to make things that can kill you. There are sites out there that sell certain elements / compounds (Not that one obviously) and they do it in a safe way. Buy them don't try and make them - ever - even if you have the equipment there could be unexpected additions to the bleach that could cause problems.

For KFC, I fully agree with you. In general, I do not agree. If you really know what you are doing and you have the suitable equipment and the suitable chemicals of known composition, then you can make dangerous compounds.

 

I've made quite some dangerous things, like pure bromine, hydrogen cyanide and even stuff like trinitromethane or silver acetylide nitrate. I do not say that I cannot get accidents (sometimes things go wrong), but I always work with very small quantities and plan beforehand, what to do if something goes wrong. If that scenario becomes reality, then I know what to do and then the consequences are only minor.

[hybrid04]

mmm didnt the nazi's use that?

[RyanJ]

For KFC, I fully agree with you. In general, I do not agree. If you really know what you are doing and you have the suitable equipment and the suitable chemicals of known composition[/i'], then you can make dangerous compounds.

 

 

I was refering to it in such a context, if you have a working knowledge of chemistry there should be less risk of a problem because you can predict what should occur and prepare for it Same with correct equiptment which is useless sometimes if you do not know how it should be used.

 

Cheers,

 

Ryan Jones

[Tsunami]

It is but seriously you'll be pushing your luck trying to make any. Its not only flammable but explosive so don't even try.

 

Again I'll point out the danger of the compound: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrazine

 

 

 

Your best avoiding trying to make things that can kill you. There are sites out there that sell certain elements / compounds (Not that one obviously) and they do it in a safe way. Buy them don't try and make them - ever - even if you have the equipment there could be unexpected additions to the bleach that could cause problems.

 

Cheers' date='

 

Ryan Jones[/quote']

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is Hydrazine An Oxidizer Or Is It Just Fuel?

[Tsunami]

Woelen What Is That Reaction In You Avatar Picture?

[Darkblade48]

Woelen What Is That Reaction In You Avatar Picture?

I believe it is Fe in HNO3, but coloured with GiMp so that the fumes appear red

[woelen]

Indeed, iron metal in concentrated nitric acid, colored afterwards with Gimp. You can even make blue gases in that way .

[KFC]

Indeed, iron metal in concentrated nitric acid, colored afterwards with Gimp. You can even make blue gases in that way .

 

 

Is The Gas Hazardous?

[Darkblade48]

Is The Gas Hazardous?

The gas produced, NO2, is quite corrosive and is toxic.

[KFC]

Would It Still Be NO2 If There Was No Gimp And What Is Gimp?

[RyanJ]

Is Hydrazine An Oxidizer Or Is It Just Fuel?

 

Its a very powerful oxidizer, thats why its ued in rocket fuel

 

This Wikipedia article gives some good information about hydrazine

 

Cheers,

 

Ryan Jones

[Darkblade48]

Would It Still Be NO2 If There Was No Gimp And What Is Gimp?

Gimp, simply put, is an image editing program.

 

Either way, the gas produced will be NO2. Gimp was used to change the colour of the smoke, it was meant as a little piece of entertainment, I suppose.

[KFC]

Oh,

[budullewraagh]

hydrazine is a reducing agent- it's a fuel. consider the wolff-kishner

[YT2095]

agreed, Hydrazine and LOX or H2O2 is the usual mix.

[KFC]

This is not some random pyro question I always wanted to know this. What is in snaps or drop poppers those little rocks wrapped up in paper that pop when you throw them against a hard surface, what makes them pop?

[Darkblade48]

I believe they have silver fulminate in them.

[KFC]

Thank You,