72% of US troops want war to end in 2006

[bascule]

http://zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1075

 

Kind of puts a different spin on the whole "Support the Troops" thing, doesn't it?

[susu]

I guess being human beings theyre just tired of fighting for a cause thats not "theirs" in a war that seems to have no end. What can a government ask of its people except to "support"?

[silkworm]

Kind of puts a different spin on the whole "Support the Troops" thing, doesn't it?

 

I liked the original thought that supporting the troops would mean not endangering their lives unless absolutely necessary and if it were absolutely necessary proceeding in the most competent and effecient manner possible to insure their safety.

 

But this works too.

 

This is a war supported by ignorance and racism that has cost the lives of many innocent people and a strategically idiotic move considering we were already at war and haven't captured who we set out to capture. I can't wait for it to end, but honestly I hope it doesn't end until 2008 to avoid invading yet another country.

[Jim]

http://zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1075

 

Kind of puts a different spin on the whole "Support the Troops" thing' date=' doesn't it?[/quote']

 

I'm confused. The articles headline is: "U.S. Troops in Iraq: 72% Say End War in 2006," yet, the article continues to say:

 

The troops have drawn different conclusions about fellow citizens back home. Asked why they think some Americans favor rapid U.S. troop withdrawal from Iraq, 37% of troops serving there said those Americans are unpatriotic, while 20% believe people back home don’t believe a continued occupation will work. Another 16% said they believe those favoring a quick withdrawal do so because they oppose the use of the military in a pre-emptive war, while 15% said they do not believe those Americans understand the need for the U.S. troops in Iraq.

 

If 37% of US Troops in Iraq think Americans back home favoring rapid withdrawal are unpatriotic and 15 percent think Americans do not understand the need, how do you get that 72% of these troops themselves want to leave rapidly? The math doesn't work.

 

Even more flawed is the questioning. This poll by the "Le Moyne College’s Center for Peace and Global Studies" gives respondents only three choices that are not open ended, all of them within the next year. Of course soldiers aren't going to answer "as long as they are needed." This poll, to the extent it is valid at all, only shows that the soldiers interviewed (not troops in Iraq) do not want to stay there indefinitely.

 

When you think about it, it is remarkable that as many as 23% gave such an open ended answer.

[susu]

I'm confused. The articles headline is: "U.S. Troops in Iraq: 72% Say End War in 2006' date='" yet, the article continues to say:

 

 

 

If 37% of US Troops in Iraq think Americans back home favoring rapid withdrawal are unpatriotic and 15 percent think Americans do not understand the need, how do you get that 72% of these troops themselves want to leave rapidly? The math doesn't work.

[/quote']

 

Well spotted Jim. I guess it makes you wonder just how valid these articles really are..

[In My Memory]

Jim,

If 37% of US Troops in Iraq think Americans back home favoring rapid withdrawal are unpatriotic and 15 percent think Americans do not understand the need, how do you get that 72% of these troops themselves want to leave rapidly? The math doesn't work.

The poll doesnt say 72% of troops want to leave rapidly, its says this::

An overwhelming majority of 72% of American troops serving in Iraq think the U.S. should exit the country within the next year, and nearly one in four say the troops should leave immediately, a new Le Moyne College/Zogby International survey shows.

 

...The poll, conducted in conjunction with Le Moyne College’s Center for Peace and Global Studies, showed that 29% of the respondents, serving in various branches of the armed forces, said the U.S. should leave Iraq “immediately,” while another 22% said they should leave in the next six months. Another 21% said troops should be out between six and 12 months, while 23% said they should stay “as long as they are needed.”

At the very least, 25% of troops think we should "leave rapidly", and all the other respondants who wanted to leave anywhere between "now" and "within a year" were pooled together to generate the figure that 72% of soldiers want to leave by 2006.

[bascule]

Here's how the numbers break down:

 

29% of the respondents said the U.S. should leave Iraq “immediately”

22% said they should leave in the next six months

21% said troops should be out between six and 12 months

23% said they should stay “as long as they are needed”

 

29% + 22% + 21% = 72%

 

If 37% of US Troops in Iraq think Americans back home favoring rapid withdrawal are unpatriotic and 15 percent think Americans do not understand the need, how do you get that 72% of these troops themselves want to leave rapidly? The math doesn't work.

 

44% of the troops (21% + 23%) do not want to leave until at least 6-12 months from now. I don't think this qualifies as "rapid withdrawl"

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Gee. Troops fighting a war want it to end.

 

Who'da thunk it?

[Jim]

Jim' date='

 

The poll doesnt say 72% of troops want to leave rapidly, its says this::

 

At the very least, 25% of troops think we should "leave rapidly", and all the other respondants who wanted to leave anywhere between "now" and "within a year" were pooled together to generate the figure that 72% of soldiers want to leave by 2006.[/quote']

 

Oops, time to retrench. Apparently, the survey "included 944 military respondents interviewed at several undisclosed locations throughout Iraq."

 

I really do want to see the source document of this poll to understand the apparent discrepency where a majority disfavor rapid withdrawal (and yes, 6-12 months, is rapid). Part of my skepticism flows from the obviously slanted wording of the question.

[Jim]

Gee. Troops fighting a war want it to end.

 

Who'da thunk it?

 

It is surprising if 23% would have agreed to an open ended stay in Iraq.

[Jim]

Here's how the numbers break down:

 

29% of the respondents said the U.S. should leave Iraq “immediately”

22% said they should leave in the next six months

21% said troops should be out between six and 12 months

23% said they should stay “as long as they are needed”

 

29% + 22% + 21% = 72%

 

 

 

44% of the troops (21% + 23%) do not want to leave until at least 6-12 months from now. I don't think this qualifies as "rapid withdrawl"

 

I'd need to see the actual methodology of this poll given the obvious slanting of the question. Who would sign up to stay at wor for "as long as needed?" It is hard to reconcile 53% opposing rapid withdrawal (and 37% of those thinking the very idea is unpatriotic) with the other poll results.

 

Okay, I"ll quit editing my posts and go home...

[Pangloss]

Quite possibly the dumbest poll I've ever heard of. Shouldn't it actually read "100% of US troops want the war to end tomorrow?"

 

I mean is there anybody in the entire world who won't read this poll and immediately say "DUH!"?

 

If this were posted at FARK it would surely have an "Obvious" tag in front of it. (grin)

[john5746]

It is surprising if 23% would have agreed to an open ended stay in Iraq.

 

Not surprising, part of the Bravado. You know, give 110%.

[ecoli]

Not surprising, part of the Bravado. You know, give 110%.

 

even still, I'm sure just about every person there has some sort of plan when they get back home, and wouldn't want to stay their indefinately, no matter how commited they are to the 'cause'.

[Jim]

even still, I'm sure just about every person there has some sort of plan when they get back home, and wouldn't want to stay their indefinately, no matter how commited they are to the 'cause'.

 

I agree that the actual feelings of the troops on the grounds are complex and varied. There is, no doubt, a varying level of commitment.

 

Yet, the simple headline in most MSM outlets is just 72% want withdrawal.

 

Here, I guess, is the DOD view:

 

But Loren Thompson, a military analyst with the Lexington Institute, said troops who say the U.S. should withdraw could be concerned for their own safety, or they could be optimistic about progress so far, or they could simply be opposed to the idea of operations in Iraq.

 

“You have to pick apart each servicemember’s thought process to understand what that means,” he said. “I think this is about personal circumstances, and not proof there is a higher rate of troops who desire departure.”

 

Defense Department officials declined to comment on the poll, saying they did not have details on how the survey was conducted.

 

John Zogby, CEO of the polling company, said the poll was funded through Le Moyne College’s Center for Peace and Global Studies, which received money for the project from an anonymous, anti-war activist, but neither the activist nor the school had input on the content of the poll.

Zogby said the survey was conducted face-to-face throughout Iraq, with permission from commanders. Despite the difficulty of polling in a war zone, he said, pollsters were pleased with the results.

 

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=35385

[bascule]

John Zogby, CEO of the polling company, said the poll was funded through Le Moyne College’s Center for Peace and Global Studies, which received money for the project from an anonymous, anti-war activist, but neither the activist nor the school had input on the content of the poll.

 

Do I detect an ad hominem?

 

I thought this was interesting:

 

While 85% said the U.S. mission is mainly “to retaliate for Saddam’s role in the 9-11 attacks,” 77% said they also believe the main or a major reason for the war was “to stop Saddam from protecting al Qaeda in Iraq.”

[Tetrahedrite]

I thought this was interesting:

While 85% said the U.S. mission is mainly “to retaliate for Saddam’s role in the 9-11 attacks,” 77% said they also believe the main or a major reason for the war was “to stop Saddam from protecting al Qaeda in Iraq.”

 

It is quite interesting considering that Saddam had absolutely nothing to do with the 11/9 attacks, and very little (at best) to do with al Qaeda. The government propaganda machine has done its job well, Joseph Goebbels would be impressed.

[Sisyphus]

Quite possibly the dumbest poll I've ever heard of. Shouldn't it actually read "100% of US troops want the war to end tomorrow?"

 

I mean is there anybody in the entire world who won't read this poll and immediately say "DUH!"?

 

If this were posted at FARK it would surely have an "Obvious" tag in front of it. (grin)

 

But there's still a difference between wanting the war to end and thinking the U.S. should end it by withdrawing. Frankly, I'm surprised that the number is that high, given the "stay until the job's done" rhetoric we (and, probably, much more the troops themselves) are bombarded with all the time. If I had taken that rhetoric to heart, then the poll would mean that 72% of troops favor giving up in defeat within one year!

[Pangloss]

When you find a poll that says all that, you let me know.

[pcs]

It is quite interesting considering that Saddam had absolutely nothing to do with the 11/9 attacks, and very little (at best) to do with al Qaeda. The government propaganda machine has done its job well, Joseph Goebbels would be impressed.

 

Apparantly the troops disagree with you.

[gcol]

Apparantly the troops disagree with you.

 

Indeed, but are not the troops among the first to be indoctrinated? It matters not why they do it, as long as they follow orders.

[doG]

I thought the war was technically over already and we're simply there at the request of the Iraqi's and their new government to help with security and training.

[gcol]

I thought the war was technically over already and we're simply there at the request of the Iraqi's and their new government to help with security and training.

 

Remind me, was it ever officially a war, if so, has it been officially declared over? If so, why do a few months in sunny Iraq not appeal?

[doG]

Remind me, was it ever officially a war, if so, has it been officially declared over? If so, why do a few months in sunny Iraq not appeal?

Well, it was officially a war and it actually started with the first Iraqi invasion. There was a conditional surrender but Saddam failed to stick with the conditions. I don't know if it was officially declared to be over but the war was against the now deposed, former regime, so it's kind of hard to still be at war with it since it doesn't exist any more. There is a new government now and they did ask us to remain on the condition that we would leave when asked. We agreed and so far we've not been asked to leave.

[Jim]

Do I detect an ad hominem?

 

I thought this was interesting:

 

It is not ad hominem to consider the credibility of a purported expert source. Experts tend to give answers wanted by the people who pay their bill. I suspect you would scoff at a study funded by the DOD which found that US troops were 72% committed to live in Iraq indefinitely if that what it takes.

 

The bias in this case is evident in the questions asked.