do you believe in the SPIRIT REALM?

[krstlmthd]

science says that the SPIRIT REALM does not exist. this is a place where you do not have a physical body, you have a spirit body or dream body. some say the SPIRIT REALM can be accessed through the psychedelic experience when you connect to the ASTRAL PLANE and transcend TIME AND SPACE as you enter a metaphysical reality where you can talk to anyone who has at any time connected to THE ASTRAL PLANE.

 

i was recently tripping ACID and as i was peaking i talked to the ghost of my dead sister when we both connected to the ASTRAL PLANE. she told me all about what it's like to be dead and said that i should not be afraid of death because it is not the end, it is merely a transition. i found her words quite comforting and it was great to see her again because she was taken when she was very young and i miss her dearly.

 

i know the late grate scientist DR. TIMOTHY LEARY did extensive research into the ASTRAL PLANE although i do not know if modern scientists have continued his work or not.

[The Peon]

A natural part of greiving is to try and "reach out" to a dead loved one, and I believe this is merely your brain trying to do so. Im not trying to make you feel bad in saying you "imagined" the whole incident, but given the strong hellucinigenic effects of LSD and the known psychological process of greiving, it is highly likely that your mind was playing tricks on you.

 

As for a "spirit realm," if it did exist it would not be supernatural, but a natural process in the universe if im not mistaken. However, its highly unlikely that is true, since I believe we are inviduals not based on a spirit, but due to the physical makeup of our brains. Thus, the genetics you inherited, combined with enviromental stresses mixed with some free logical thinking on your own made you who you are, not some spirit. I can rip your heart or lungs out and you would survive for some brief instances before you died, but if I ripped your brain out you would be gone instantly.

 

I recently had a close friend die... and even with all the logical thinking and knowledge I have of these things, I still found myself wondering if he was here watching me... its a natural thing man. Anyway thats my 2 cents, but like most things in science, since it cannot be disproven you never really know.

 

[krstlmthd]

no it was not just a halucination. she was real. i know this because she told me a story that i could NOT HAVE POSSIBLY known before she told it to me, and afterwards i asked my parents about it and they said it was true and were amazed to hear it.

 

so you can't just say it was a halucination because otherwise how could i know the story she told me?

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

no it was not just a halucination. she was real. i know this because she told me a story that i could NOT HAVE POSSIBLY known before she told it to me' date=' and afterwards i asked my parents about it and they said it was true and were amazed to hear it.

 

so you can't just say it was a halucination because otherwise how could i know the story she told me?[/quote']

Perhaps you picked up on other things that they had mentioned, and put it all together while hallucinating? It happens to people, as in near-death experiences.

[padren]

I think this brings up one of the main reasons views on spirituality are quite personal.

 

The most any skeptical person can glean from this is either:

 

1) You were talking to your sister on the astral plane

2) You were mistaken while hallucinating

3) You are making this all up

 

The thing is, none of us can really see any additional evidence that lends more to any one of these. In leu of that, we can at best go with whatever option best fits our own current view of the world.

 

My sister saw her best friend in a dream, the night her friend died, when she had no way of knowing that, so I may be more open to the possibility of #1 due to the fact that I had witnessed that.

 

Personally I try not to speculate about such things, because other than the odd literal personal experience, the best I can do is come up with untestable conjecture, and there are enough things in life I can't make sense out of that I know are testable to keep me busy.

 

 

The important thing is whether you believe in the spirit realm, and how that impacts your life. I quite respect seeking personal experiences to test reality, even though it can be dangerous at times (ie don't over do it on the LSD).

[bascule]

Why is it that we hear innumerable "Such and such metaphysical channel gave me information for which there is no other explanation" anecdotes but when someone like James Randi offers a multimillion dollar prize if you can demonstrate the presence of such a metaphysical channel under controlled conditions, nobody can cut the mustard?

[padren]

Why is it that we hear innumerable "Such and such metaphysical channel gave me information for which there is no other explanation" anecdotes but when someone like James Randi offers a multimillion dollar prize if you can demonstrate the presence of such a metaphysical channel under controlled conditions, nobody can cut the mustard?

 

Either

A) All examples of such are mistakes or frauds

B) Almost all examples of such are mistakes or frauds, with real instances being so few and far between as to be unlikely to ever coincide with controlled conditions.

 

Not claiming to have the answers of course, and it is a fair question.

[The Peon]

no it was not just a halucination. she was real. i know this because she told me a story that i could NOT HAVE POSSIBLY known before she told it to me' date=' and afterwards i asked my parents about it and they said it was true and were amazed to hear it.

 

so you can't just say it was a halucination because otherwise how could i know the story she told me?[/quote']

 

I really think you need to lay off the methamphetamines. It's destroying your brain tissue, among other things.

[JohnB]

Why is it that we hear innumerable "Such and such metaphysical channel gave me information for which there is no other explanation" anecdotes but when someone like James Randi offers a multimillion dollar prize if you can demonstrate the presence of such a metaphysical channel under controlled conditions, nobody can cut the mustard?

The challenge is flawed. The inherent flaw is the assumption that the hypothetical realm can be "controlled". If a person has no control over the other side of the communication, then how can it be reproduced under "controlled conditions"? I have no control over when my mother will phone me, therefore I can't reproduce a communication with her under Randi's controlled conditions.

 

I assure you (and my wife will agree) that my mother does indeed exist.

[the tree]

science says that the SPIRIT REALM does not exist.

1. Science is not concerned with anything beyond what's observable.
2. Science does not misuse the shift key.

[YT2095]

do you believe in the SPIRIT REALM?

 

Yes, or rather I don`t Disbeleive in it. As a Spiritual person myself and just as equaly Science orientated, I`m dispossed towards waiting for further data, that to me makes the most sense both Logicaly and Spiritualy. I have no problem reconciling the both of them either.

 

also I would like to point out that in your 1`st sentence you stated: "science says that the SPIRIT REALM does not exist".

Science has never ONCE said or Claimed this!

I fear this is your OWN interpretation/spin on things, not what`s actualy Real!

[reyam200]

bascule,

even if somone had, TK, telepathy, or other ablities. when they got on stage, there is always "self-doubt" the "what if i can't"

everyone struggles with this, and even more so if they have an ablity like TK, their afraid of being rejected, or thought of as a freak. because the alot of people either dissbeleave(because of the lack of scientific evadence) or think its the product of evil beings(demons, ect.)

the best way to start, would be to put the person if front of a small audence skeptics as well as family and friends.

[Sisyphus]

So your contention that is the lack of any scientific evidence whatsoever for any of these things is because of stage fright?

[reyam200]

yes, for evadence on some TV show, as for evadence like in some lab, it would be easier to preform TK without all the people and cameras. anything is harder to do with alot of people watching.

with TK, you have to focus all you attention onto the object your trying to move, thats very difficult with a croud watching you.

so yes, the reason we don't yet have evadence is because the "controlled conditions" are not comfterable for the person preforming TK.

id say the best way to film it, would be to have a hidden camera. or give the person time to get used to preforming infront of crouds.

[JustStuit]

yes' date=' for evadence on some TV show, as for evadence like in some lab, it would be easier to preform TK without all the people and cameras. anything is harder to do with alot of people watching.

with TK, you have to focus all you attention onto the object your trying to move, thats very difficult with a croud watching you.

so yes, the reason we don't yet have evadence is because the "controlled conditions" are not comfterable for the person preforming TK.[/quote']

The reason we don't have evidense is because it doesn't exist.

[reyam200]

The reason we don't have evidense is because it doesn't exist.

there is no evadence to dissprove it, so you can't say it doesn't exist. and also the laws of physics are FAR from being complete. according to todays laws, it is impossible, but the laws of the future may say differently. it is very closed minded of you to say that something doesn't exist when there is not yet proof

[JustStuit]

I think if something like that existed there would be more proof. I am very skeptical when something lacks ANY proof. The reason it works for smaller audiences is because it is easier to TRICK them. It is all an illusion. The laws of physics and science are incomplete but to use that as proof or a reason is strawmanning. Where would the energy come from? Why would it work? It doesn't make any sense and has never been CLOSE to proved and is ludicrious. I therefore choose to be very skeptical.

[reyam200]

there is nothing wrong with being skeptical, and i was not useing physics lack of completion as proof for telekinesis's existence. just leaveing a possiblity open. but you saying the it doesn't exist, was, as i said, closed minded. my point is, there is no scientific proof either way, only speculation. so you should't say weather its real or fake. because we simply don't know.

[JustStuit]

there is nothing wrong with being skeptical, and i was not useing physics lack of completion as proof for telekinesis's existence. just leaveing a possiblity open. but you saying the it doesn't exist, was, as i said, closed minded. my point is, there is no scientific proof either way, only speculation. so you should't say weather its real or fake. because we simply don't know.

How could you explain how it could even be possible. It would involve something which produced enough energy to move things a few feet away. We have mapped the brain pretty well and found no such suspicous thing. Why can only some people do it too? It doesn't add up and they are just illusions. People have shown how it could be done using illusions and it's MUCH better to attribute it to that.

[reyam200]

like i said, there is to much unknown, we won't know for sure if its possible or how it could work untill science and technology advances. so for now, the best option would be to stay nutral. and just see what happens in the next few years.

 

i suggest studing it from another POV, that of a mystasist perhaps. a true scientist studies something from all possible views, and then formulates an opinion.

 

google telekinesis, you'll find alot of info on the subject, including some theorys on how it works.

[JustStuit]

like i said' date=' there is to much unknown, we won't know for sure if its possible or how it could work untill science and technology advances. so for now, the best option would be to stay nutral. and just see what happens in the next few years.

 

i suggest studing it from another POV, that of a mystasist perhaps. a true scientist studies something from all possible views, and then formulates an opinion.[/quote']

I have. From the POV of TK existing it ridicules all scientific theory and principles I know. From the skeptic, it makes sense. It does not exist. Best to believe they are illusions and not be fooled.

[reyam200]

ok, since i can't convince you to leave options open. instead, ask your science teacher if he or she, thinks that furture science may proove its existence. mabye you'll listen to them.

 

we don't know everything.

all i every try to do, is get people to always leave room for possiblitys, new ideas, new ways of thinking.

[bascule]

If performance anxiety were an insurmountable foe, humanity would never reproduce

[reyam200]

lol, true.

but its instinct to reproduce, so i don't think were in any danger of dying out.

[Sisyphus]

Er, JustStuit is right. If there's no evidence whatsoever, and no explanation of how it possibly might work, then it's silly to be "neutral," as if it being real or not were equally likely. They're not. The fact that every legitimate test ever conducted indicates nothing of the kind exists means that either a)it's disproven, or b)it's something that isn't even testable. If it's not testable, then I can just as easily say it's equally likely whether or not there's a giant invisible hippo in space that watches you in the shower. You can't disprove it, so it's best to remain neutral, right?