NavajoEverclear Posted October 15, 2003 Posted October 15, 2003 Why do higher levels of emotion result in flooding tear ducts? Also, aren't tears pretty much unique to humans? Probably an answer i could have found on google, but you know what, i like interaction and conversation better.
Glider Posted October 15, 2003 Posted October 15, 2003 Tears are produced by all mammals, and some reptiles too. However, these serve a function, cleaning and lubricating the eyes. Humans (as far as we know), are the only animal in which strong emotion triggers the tear ducts.
YT2095 Posted October 15, 2003 Posted October 15, 2003 Beats me, why as a kid, you fall over and hurt yourself... you cry. get older and do same... you probably swear or laugh. but see or experience a happy! event, THEN you may cry, but a kid would just jump up and down smiling and shouting??? mankind is SUCH a strange animal!
Dudde Posted October 15, 2003 Posted October 15, 2003 you can also be scared to the point where tears flood your eyes
alt_f13 Posted October 16, 2003 Posted October 16, 2003 Originally posted by Dudde you can also be scared to the point where tears flood your eyes That ever happen to you? I bet it has.
Dudde Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 yes indeedy! first time I saw sayo's new avatar, I dang near wet me pants! though I guess it was a good thing, since it desensitized me to MrL's new avatar
ugochukwu Posted October 18, 2003 Posted October 18, 2003 Hi everybody i am new here. Just wanted to say that crying is one of the best things about been human, the idea that tears come out of your tearsac to make you cry at the right time, is one great phenomenum. it also tells us humans how special we really are, to have the ability to express our feelings through crying. But it has been long since i cried and so i have no idea how it feels for people who loose those close to them and cry their hearts out.
NSX Posted October 19, 2003 Posted October 19, 2003 ugochukwu said in post #8 :Hi everybody i am new here. Just wanted to say that crying is one of the best things about been human, the idea that tears come out of your tearsac to make you cry at the right time, is one great phenomenum. it also tells us humans how special we really are, to have the ability to express our feelings through crying. But it has been long since i cried and so i have no idea how it feels for people who loose those close to them and cry their hearts out. Welcome to SF!!! Well, go into relationships, there's bound to be tears there That's a good question Navajo; I have no idea.
YT2095 Posted October 19, 2003 Posted October 19, 2003 Laughter`s even better, and incredibly good for your internal organs as well
ugochukwu Posted October 20, 2003 Posted October 20, 2003 I seriously doubt that crying comes only through expressed feelings. At times, i don't know about everyone, tears often come when you wake up and yone or when you actually laugh too much. happens to my sis and mom. Laugh and yone, they still cry.
Kedas Posted October 20, 2003 Posted October 20, 2003 I think that crying is basically a way to show to your environment that you can use help. (independant if you feel happy or sad or that someone is actualy able to help you) It's just a basic thing your brain isn't thinking will it really help it is just detecting that it need help and starts the tears. The needed help is about your basic survival level that your brain predicts. It most likely started for practical use only and developed a more psychological use. I have a much more mathematical explanation about 'feeling' but I will keep that for myself (for now, until finished)
NavajoEverclear Posted October 21, 2003 Author Posted October 21, 2003 I want to know your theory, or what ever it is that you are developing. I believe that emotions if read right (which i believe our society is vastly not designed to support consistently) could be very precise calculations that would give an individual great advantage (in about any application) to be able to communicate the semi-unconscious senses and decide how to apply to the rest of the brain consciously. Did that make sense? Basically i think emotions are much quicker at analyzing information, but since we have not learned to establish a stable connection between that and the parts of the brain that can respond and send calculated instructions out, the information emotions are results of are often wasted. I'd say there are many factors that place a filter to blind us from these senses, thus greatly impeding potential progression. I hope science can help in figuring out just how to solve this problem. Is that at all similar to what you are investigating? I haven't really done any study on it myself, so my version is just in hypothesis stage.
MishMish Posted October 21, 2003 Posted October 21, 2003 NavajoEverclear said in post [basically i think emotions are much quicker at analyzing information, but since we have not learned to establish a stable connection between that and the parts of the brain that can respond and send calculated instructions out, the information emotions are results of are often wasted. [/b] LeDoux has a couple of books on the matter, The Emotional Brain & Synaptic Self, you might be interested in By his explanation (and as I understood it,) yes the emotions do take the "low road," quick and dirty, with supplemental information taking the high road after processing in context, and as the connections from the "emotional" domains (eg the amygdala) to the cognitive are stronger and better developed than the reverse, our emotional states are more likely to intefere with or affect the cognitive than the cognitive to affect the emotional As for reading emotional states, I am undecided. The basic (whichever they may be) I think probably are hardwired, but am much less sure about the complex, even the basic I think are open to misinterpretation (at least or esp concerning those with different neurotypes) and the complex I think may not be hardwired at all, perhaps still being sorted out evolutionarily All personal speculation that last
YT2095 Posted October 21, 2003 Posted October 21, 2003 ugochukwu said in post #11 :I seriously doubt that crying comes only through expressed feelings. At times, i don't know about everyone, tears often come when you wake up and yone or when you actually laugh too much. happens to my sis and mom. Laugh and yone, they still cry. Glider:: Tears are produced by all mammals, and some reptiles too. However, these serve a function, cleaning and lubricating the eyes. Humans (as far as we know), are the only animal in which strong emotion triggers the tear ducts. if you take the 1`st part, of his statement, you`ll see that crying DOES perform a function, Gliders post was 100% for the thread so far when posted, to expand on it now, you`ll find that many mammals will cry simply as a function of toxicity (dust, dry air or even an onion), so sure it provides a needed function tears also perform the function of a "sealant", you yawn (tiredness yawn that is, not low O2 levels), tears are a funtion of protecting your eyes while you cannot in a passive sleep state. tears contain a protein that coagulates on exposure to air, makeing seal on delicate eyes to protect against germs, insects,dusts etc... and so you make wake up with "sleep" in the corner of your eye, it those protective proteins that you remove, not really the "sandman" consider it as an autonomic deffense system Humans REALLY ARE! remarkable creatures!
Kedas Posted October 21, 2003 Posted October 21, 2003 No, I won't tell more. Something else: Can you still laugh with a joke you already heard? That's the problem with such a theory if we take away the mystery it becomes a tool.
YT2095 Posted October 21, 2003 Posted October 21, 2003 He`s right in a sense, when "jokes/humor" becomes a science, they will cease to funny. but watching them TRY to do it, will be worth all the jokes under sun It will ITSELF become funny
NavajoEverclear Posted October 21, 2003 Author Posted October 21, 2003 to the cognitive are stronger and better developed than the reverse, our emotional states are more likely to intefere with or affect the cognitive than the cognitive to affect the emotional is that saying that emotions get in the way of congnitive process? I think that could be changed if we were trained to recognize exactly what causes an emotion, exactly what an emotion is, and what to do about it. (well perhaps not exactly, that sounds too perfectionist, so to a more comprehensive degree anyway) Kedas-- i am impatient, when will your theory be done? Or you worrying about getting it copyrighted first? I think its pretty easy to get things copyrighted, getting published is the only hard part (so i've heard, but i think theres even websites where you can copyright stuff for cheap)
Kedas Posted October 22, 2003 Posted October 22, 2003 NavajoEverclear said in post #18 : Kedas-- i am impatient, when will your theory be done? Or you worrying about getting it copyrighted first? I think its pretty easy to get things copyrighted, getting published is the only hard part (so i've heard, but i think theres even websites where you can copyright stuff for cheap) Hehe, It's not nice of me to tell something and then just say notting anymore but it's the first time I really said something about it. I ckecked it back and the first time I took some notes about the basic idea was in august of 1995. probably another 5 years a few to make it clear and a few more to do some impact testing. (preferable on my 35 birthday, 26Jan2008) Copyright isn't the main reason, I first need to know more about it's possible impact. It like making an antidote before releasing a poison. I'm sure some people can advance much faster with what I have so far but I prefer security over speed. I'm very secure about any notes about it. I try to keep most just in my head that's the safest place, but I do forget sometimes I shouldn't tease you but there is a SMALL chance that I can make a link between the origin of life and the conservation of energy law. (still missing a puzzle piece)
NavajoEverclear Posted October 22, 2003 Author Posted October 22, 2003 Well i do respect you makings sure its sound and all before releasing it, but like i said, i'm impatient, i guess i might as well stop worrying about it since theres nothing i can do. Sounds cool. I'll just forget about it for 5 years and if you get famous i'll brag to all my friends that i talked to you before.
MishMish Posted October 23, 2003 Posted October 23, 2003 NavajoEverclear said in post #18 : is that saying that emotions get in the way of congnitive process? I think that could be changed if we were trained to recognize exactly what causes an emotion, exactly what an emotion is, and what to do about it. (well perhaps not exactly, that sounds too perfectionist, so to a more comprehensive degree anyway) That emotional processes can affect cognitive processes. Depends on how welcome they are, I guess, if you consider them getting in the way or not First would be helpful to know that by his definition "feelings" is basically the awareness of "emotions" and not identical. His work is with fear, and his view is that what the non-conscious emotional system has learned may be suppressed through reconditioning but not completely eliminated. Since the emotional system is set in motion through direct sensory input and prior to any cognitive involvement, and as long as the emotional system has stronger connections to the cognitive than the other way around, he did not seem to think much of "controlling" the emotions as you seem to suggest, but did npt really speculate on it either
Kedas Posted October 23, 2003 Posted October 23, 2003 NavajoEverclear said in post #20 :Well i do respect you makings sure its sound and all before releasing it, but like i said, i'm impatient, i guess i might as well stop worrying about it since theres nothing i can do. Sounds cool. I'll just forget about it for 5 years and if you get famous i'll brag to all my friends that i talked to you before. No need to worry I will do the worrying for you About being famous I really don't like that idea. (I like to be the observer that doesn't interfere, maybe it will change) Maybe I should just stop it now. (just kidding) Brag to your friends about it ? Yeah I'm sure they will believe you. LOL (BTW you probably don't know my real name)
NavajoEverclear Posted October 23, 2003 Author Posted October 23, 2003 if you became published i would, and if its a significant breakthrough you wont be hard to find. Maybe i'm missunderstanding you-- i do agree that emotion inherently effects the cognitive process, but there are different ways to respond to certain emotions percieved. I think it just clicked to me that you mean the emotional being more powerful seemingly, the cognitive cant change it---- i don't know if anything could change the emotions or if you'd want to, certainly varying intellects/personalities and such have different emotions, but its not the point to change whatever the emotions are. The emotions are telling you something, and the cognitive can decide what do with them. Emotions have already calculated conflicts that the conscious mind isn't aware of---- if we knew how to read our own emotions we could find out what the problem is faster. And knowing more exactly what the problem is, how to solve it. Thats what i think emotions may be--- solution to the answer, if you know how to interpret it. Maybe an example of what i mean----- you get depressed, you may just continue to be depressed or you can figure out what makes you depressed and in all you power change those things that impede your efficiency in life (thats what depression is, sense that you are not functioning well enough basically--- there are of coarse other emotions that are problems, but not nearly so blatantly). The application of the idea would be to find the scientific connection emotions have to things the higher brain levels have not reckoned with yet. Emotions don't control you, you decide what to do when you feel a certain thing, and what you do results in more emotions. There are many mild emotions you have constantly that you don't think about---- they are there for a reason, i think we would have great advantage to know exactly what those reasons are.
MishMish Posted October 24, 2003 Posted October 24, 2003 Gecko, again should clarify that not all emotions reach the level of conscious awareness, as LeDoux is using the term at any rate. And yes, the emotions are telling you something, whether they reach conscious awareness or not, but they did not evolve in the industialized environment we live in. They are not necessarily telling you something useful to modern life. I've been finely depressed, and I do not think one can simply will one's way out of it. Certainly one can look for and try to reduce triggers or additional stressors, but that is not necessarily sufficient. His references to stress I found particularly depressing, a fine situation to be in. Severe stress inhibits the negative feedback control loop on stress, causing the fear system to be amplified even further. This may intensify not only the response to the original source of stress but to more weakly conditioned fear responses as well. These effects are not just the chemical reactions but also affect affect the wiring. Dendrites in the hippocampus, associated with at least some forms of memory, actually shrivel, apparently irreversibly, under prolonged stress Please keep in mind my readings on all this are still early (and hence my heavy reliance on LeDoux at the moment. I definitely like his approach and find him an easy read, but he is also one of the few I have much read at the moment, so any priority given to his position is a consequence of my limited readings to date.) Am primarily interested in autism at the moment, and am flipping back and forth betwen the psychologists and cog-sci trying to get a grip on the topic, and have definitely not absorbed all I have read
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