What if God died?

[The Peon]

LOL ok I know its a funny title, but my brother who was pretty atheistic was arguing with me yesterday about the possibility of a god. After going back and forth for a bit, he said "What if god used all his energy etc to bring forth the universe and then expired because of it?" I then went into the whole M-theory super string multi universe talk but it still struck me as something I never thought of. Im sure some of you thought of it before but it seemed pretty freaky to me to imagine.

[penagate]

Being almighty and all that, you would think he would at least have immunity to such mere mortal fallibilities

[gcol]

If God died soon after creation, then we appear to have been bumbling along quite nicely without him, or:

 

He created such a damn fine mechanism first time around that it can run nicely without him tinkering with it thereafter.

 

Won't make any difference to believers, because they will not believe it, and non-believers will just shrug and say 'so what?'

[insane_alien]

its all moot in the end. why not just enjoy life now.

[aj47]

I suppose it's like the old question 'can god create an object he himself could not lift'.

 

Most believers would say, as he is all powerful and can do anything, yes, but more to the point why would he.

[Bettina]

When the big bang happened, god went the opposite way and must be in that other universe, because I don't see him in this one.

 

Bettina

[The Peon]

This got me to thinking... I remember reading once about super string, how they say its actually possible to "create" a new universe in your basement by appying M-theory, which would be totally harmless to our universe as it would occupy its own space and time. Well, what if God was some scientist in another universe and he created our universe, then grew old and died. LOL Well, I guess the title would be true than Of course I dont believe any of that nonsense im just speaking in worthless speculation. Not to mention who knows what laws of physics exist in other "universes."

[Daecon]

I suppose it's like the old question 'can god create an object he himself could not lift'.

 

Most believers would say' date=' as he is all powerful and can do anything, yes, but more to the point why would he.[/quote']

Can a software engineer make a program so complicated that he can't decode it?

[ecoli]

I suppose it's like the old question 'can god create an object he himself could not lift'.

 

Most believers would say' date=' as he is all powerful and can do anything, yes, but more to the point why would he.[/quote']

 

I would say yes... but because God is all powerful, our puny little minds couldn't even comprehend the bending of physical laws it would take to accomplish such a task.

[bascule]

What if god used all his energy etc to bring forth the universe and then expired because of it?

 

I've talked about this extensively, but if you believe in a cyclical cosmology as I do it's not that hard to imagine that God cannot continue to exist after the universe is (re)created.

 

See: http://www.scienceforums.net/forums/showthread.php?t=17389

[Daecon]

What if God was only able to create the Universe, but as he exists outside of it, he will never be able to interact with what happens inside the Universe, that is to say - perhaps God can only be a passive observer of the events that happen inside his Universe, but he himself can never get "inside" to do anything because he exists outside of this Universe.

 

God must exist outside of the Universe (in order to have created the Universe to begin with).

 

Things that exist outside of the Universe are not able to affect what happens inside the Universe (simply because they are outside of the Universe and not subject to it's laws, nor can these things that exist outside the Universe have any effect on those laws inside the Universe).

 

Therefore, God is not able affect what happens inside the Universe (because God exists outside of the Universe).

[ecoli]

What if God was only able to create the Universe' date=' but as he exists outside of it, he will never be able to interact with what happens inside the Universe, that is to say - perhaps God can only be a passive observer of the events that happen inside his Universe, but he himself can never get "inside" to do anything because he exists outside of this Universe.

 

God must exist outside of the Universe (in order to have created the Universe to begin with).

 

Things that exist outside of the Universe are not able to affect what happens inside the Universe (simply because they are [b']outside[/b] of the Universe and not subject to it's laws, nor can these things that exist outside the Universe have any effect on those laws inside the Universe).

 

Therefore, God is not able affect what happens inside the Universe (because God exists outside of the Universe).

 

sounds almost reasonable to me... except my personal belief is that god chooses not to interfere... not that he is unable to. He set the laws in motion at the begining and has no desire to interfere now.

[starbug1]

Along with that theory, God created the universe and some say he created it to evolve on its own, in which case, this would mean that God is not in power, so to speak, anytime other than at the Big Bang. So this would mean that if God dies nothing would change in our world.

 

For those who say that death and life do not apply to a God, then it could also be called hibernation, but this would defeat the purpose of a God in the first place.

[aguy2]

LOL ok I know its a funny title, but my brother who was pretty atheistic was arguing with me yesterday about the possibility of a god. After going back and forth for a bit, he said "What if god used all his energy etc to bring forth the universe and then expired because of it?" I then went into the whole M-theory super string multi universe talk but it still struck me as something I never thought of. Im sure some of you thought of it before but it seemed pretty freaky to me to imagine.

 

As in, "investing everything all it had into its creation"? I would rather hope not. It would be highly problematic if there would be a equitable return on the investment.

aguy2

[padren]

What if God was only able to create the Universe' date=' but as he exists outside of it....

Therefore, God is not able affect what happens inside the Universe (because God exists outside of the Universe).[/quote']

 

Well, one interesting thought is if he did exist outside it, and therefore outside of time too, any change he would have made, would be timeless. We'd never see signs of him "changing" creation as it would always have been changed as of the moment he decided to change it. (IE, he would be in a higher dimension of causality, at which some point he created time (our causality) and the rest of our universe, but anything he decided to change over the course of his causality would still be able to be timeless within the frame of reference of our causality.) For us, the original version before he made a change would just as well never existed.

 

Also, a twist on the "could god create something he can't lift" you could also ask "could god create something beyond his reach" just the same. For both, you could also ask "and why the heck would he want to go and do something like that?"

[Sisyphus]

Also' date=' a twist on the "could god create something he can't lift" you could also ask "could god create something beyond his reach" just the same. For both, you could also ask "and why the heck would he want to go and do something like that?" [/quote']

 

You could also ask, "Why am I assuming he's omnipotent?" This will naturally be followed by, "Is he omnipotent?" At this point those silly paradoxes might well come to mind, after which, depending on your disposition, you might either a)decide those very questions imply "omnipotence" is an impossibility, b)decide these things appear to be utterly unknowable, and you should stop worrying about them, c)decide that you want to assume he's omnipotent, and that no absurdity is so great that it can't be overcome by an even greater rationalization (god's powerful enough to be a logical impossibility if he wants), or d)decide to drink heavily. Each of these choices has its merits, so take your pick.

[rising moon]

God die after create?I think thats absurd

 

Creation is God's expressing self.

God never exist in whatever thing and God never leave anything.

It because of God is soyrce of all reality God's creation.

 

so it is very imposible god die because God is source everything That NOTHING in everything...

 

This makes conclude. God is ONLY ONE, there are no otherPossibility!

[Bettina]

God die after create?I think thats absurd

 

Creation is God's expressing self.

God never exist in whatever thing and God never leave anything.

It because of God is soyrce of all reality God's creation.

 

so it is very imposible god die because God is source everything That NOTHING in everything...

 

This makes conclude. God is ONLY ONE' date=' there are no otherPossibility![/quote']

 

 

Believe me when I say this. No one has called on god for help more than me. And, I mean nobody. The only one who answered me was the tooth fairy. She gave me a dollar and a smiley face when I needed it the most.

 

Bee

[rising moon]

.........................

It depends on which God you called.

 

Its true most people becomes deeper (their faith) if they come out from hard problem..even that God is not True God.

 

How can you give up on God even though all hard problems are on God's Hand.Why he/she hope other than

that God.

 

and he/she hope other "That God" and he/she knock other than Door"That God" even though Only That Door is open fro whoever wants to pray on that God.

Who ever hope on That God for break off their hard which "that god" makes he/she disssapointed. And who ever hope in "Me(that God) with carry masses of Sins, then I(That God) break their hope? or who ever knocked my door that I didnt open for he/she?

To be honest I have direct connect between me with all Kain and Hopes all my creation, then why you lean on other than Me? I have provided all my servant"s hope but he/she still didnt acquiesce in with my protection??

And I have make full my sky with my angels that never bored to pray into me. Then I command to angels in order not to close door that makes Wall between Me and my servant. Then (why) they still didnt trust my "saying"..

Dont thet understand that who ever get calamity that I descend, nobody can remove it unless I!!.

Then why I see he/she with all their fantasies and hope always "turn out from.

Dont they get deceit Other than Me!!"

 

 

 

 

p.s.

be careful, it is possible that tooth fairy is genie. they want human to be destroyed.. Genie come in genie and human form.

[Bettina]

.........................

It depends on which God you called.

 

Its true most people becomes deeper (their faith) if they come out from hard problem..even that God is not True God.

 

How can you give up on God even though all hard problems are on God's Hand.Why he/she hope other than

that God.

 

and he/she hope other "That God" and he/she knock other than Door"That God" even though Only That Door is open fro whoever wants to pray on that God.

Who ever hope on That God for break off their hard which "that god" makes he/she disssapointed. And who ever hope in "Me(that God) with carry masses of Sins' date=' then I(That God) break their hope? or who ever knocked my door that I didnt open for he/she?

To be honest I have direct connect between me with all Kain and Hopes all my creation, then why you lean on other than Me? I have provided all my servant"s hope but he/she still didnt acquiesce in with my protection??

And I have make full my sky with my angels that never bored to pray into me. Then I command to angels in order not to close door that makes Wall between Me and my servant. Then (why) they still didnt trust my "saying"..

Dont thet understand that who ever get calamity that I descend, nobody can remove it unless I!!.

Then why I see he/she with all their fantasies and hope always "turn out from.

Dont they get deceit Other than Me!!"

 

 

 

 

p.s.

be careful, it is possible that tooth fairy is genie. they want human to be destroyed.. Genie come in genie and human form.[/quote']

 

Your hard to understand for one thing, but if your saying that a person who asks god for help and does NOT recieve it is talking to the wrong god?

 

And those who DO receive it are talking to the correct god?

 

If this is the case, then I'm glad I moved on to atheism because I dislike either and all gods. My dad is my god.

 

Bettina

[Sisyphus]

.........................

It depends on which God you called.

 

Its true most people becomes deeper (their faith) if they come out from hard problem..even that God is not True God.

 

How can you give up on God even though all hard problems are on God's Hand.Why he/she hope other than

that God.

 

and he/she hope other "That God" and he/she knock other than Door"That God" even though Only That Door is open fro whoever wants to pray on that God.

Who ever hope on That God for break off their hard which "that god" makes he/she disssapointed. And who ever hope in "Me(that God) with carry masses of Sins' date=' then I(That God) break their hope? or who ever knocked my door that I didnt open for he/she?

To be honest I have direct connect between me with all Kain and Hopes all my creation, then why you lean on other than Me? I have provided all my servant"s hope but he/she still didnt acquiesce in with my protection??

And I have make full my sky with my angels that never bored to pray into me. Then I command to angels in order not to close door that makes Wall between Me and my servant. Then (why) they still didnt trust my "saying"..

Dont thet understand that who ever get calamity that I descend, nobody can remove it unless I!!.

Then why I see he/she with all their fantasies and hope always "turn out from.

Dont they get deceit Other than Me!!"

 

 

 

 

p.s.

be careful, it is possible that tooth fairy is genie. they want human to be destroyed.. Genie come in genie and human form.[/quote']

 

I'm putting out a general prayer that you write a coherent sentence.

[rising moon]

@Bettina

I understand you dont understand what I am trying to say

 

Why are you glad whtn you knew yourself you talked to "Wrong God" and you give up??

 

First I am not christian. I am a ordinary moslem.

 

I know I am talking to correct God because I have validy and verify Knowledge after and before life (let us call this Invisible things)as far I could and Prove it through all over my life experience.

And I want to discuss and share it with all of "you" if you like..

 

 

@all

I know this stuff is strange. But you will be understand someday. I try as I could that to be acquainted with you,all

[rising moon]

please,remember.

 

God is depend on Servants's assumptions.

If they think God dont exist/die. Then God is never found.

If they think God is exist/near, then god will be found soon or later, no matter hardships and pains to overcome.

If they think God is far/unreachable only..then God is far/unreachable.

 

 

Now. All of this ....Makes senses right!

or I wrong... show me if I wrong.

[pink_trike]

God is dead...now can we please bury him already?

[padren]

please' date='remember.

 

God is depend on Servants's assumptions.

If they think God dont exist/die. Then God is never found.

If they think God is exist/near, then god will be found soon or later, no matter hardships and pains to overcome.

If they think God is far/unreachable only..then God is far/unreachable.

 

 

Now. All of this ....Makes senses right!

or I wrong... show me if I wrong.[/quote']

 

That is makes sense, but it is not shown to be accurate. It is a theory that can be used to explain why God doesn't answer prayers, or at least not all prayers, but it is not a theory that can be tested and shown right or wrong. Another theory is that God never answers prayers, and perhaps does not exist, and when people think God did answer a prayer they just got randomly lucky. With hundreds of billions of prayers a year, its understandable if some people get lucky and get what they pray for by luck alone.

 

The second theory can only be disproven if you have proof God answers prayers. Maybe your life has given you what you feel is proof to you, and therefore feel that your theory is better. Thats okay, but other people have lived life differently and may have had experiences that make the second theory seem better.

 

Also, remember that when you say "I know I am talking to correct God because I have validy and verify Knowledge after and before life" that there are lots of people that say the same thing as you and believe it but are talking about different Gods, and cannot all be correct. We have no way to know if you are correct, or any one of the other people, or if no one is correct.