Questioning Patriotism

[ku]

What are laws? Government is defined at the entity that has most power among a group of people. Thus if the mafia controls the government then the mafia is by definition the government since the mafia has most power. Government with this monopoly on power uses it to set a standard of right or wrong and enforces this standard with its power.

 

An alternate definition of patriotism is not love of government but love of the people ruled by the government. Government and people are different things. Imagine a group of kids in a pre-school and the strongest boy in the group uses his muscles to gather all the males together and form a group. The group of all boys is a country ruled by that strongest boy, who is the government. Patriotism occurs when the boys who are members of this country (1) love this strong boy and this is like loyalty to government and/or (2) love other boys, i.e. love members of the same group. Either way, the members of this country have a bias towards members of their own group and the group is defined by the strongest boy. In other words, patriotism is love of select people and this selective love is in the hands of the entity with the most power. The boys under the control of this strongest boy, if they have patriotism, will show a bias towards members of their own group and thus they like less those not in the group, i.e. all females in the pre-school. In this example, patriotism = sexism simply because the entity in power has selective groups based upon whether they are male or female. The entity in power has control of who is a member or not and since a patriot likes people who the entity in power choses, then whomever a patriot likes is in the hands of the government.

 

So in that way, patriotism is obedience to government since government defines those you like.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Government is defined at the entity that has most power among a group of people.

Stop right there.

 

The government is a group of people in a social contract wit the rest of the people -- "we'll protect you from crime and terrorists if you pay us taxes." Even if there is another entity that has more influence, they are not the government; the government has an unspoken contract with the people to (hopefully) protect them and make them safe.

[Jim]

So in that way, patriotism is obedience to government since government defines those you like.

 

In times of crisis we rally around our leaders. This is, no doubt, an evolutionary trait that once gave a meaningful survival advantage. While the visceral need to protect the tribe or homeland can be misused, it is also a trait that we still need.

 

I do not believe it is blind patriotism that makes me feel extremely fortunate I was born in this time in this country. Americans today have been dealt a pretty good hand by historical standards.

[Phi for All]

I think patriotism is just the name you give to the support of an ideal on a national level. I don't think obedience is as much a part of it as is shared goals. Patriots follow leaders who share the national ideal, or that "for which we stand".

 

Smaller groups adhere to the will of the group and call it religion or civic-mindedness or even team spirit. The smallest groups call such adherence "marriage" and look for one other person who shares enough ideals to make them a viable partner in living arrangements and raising children.

 

Who I like doesn't play as much a part in patriotism either. I may not care for someone personally but will follow their lead when they show me they share the same ideals I do.

[zyncod]

In times of crisis we rally around our leaders. This is, no doubt, an evolutionary trait that once gave a meaningful survival advantage. While the visceral need to protect the tribe or homeland can be misused, it is also a trait that we still need.

 

I don't know that humans have been in this type of social situation long enough to be sure that there is an evolutionary basis for this idea. Humans are not like dogs - there is no hardwired social strata.

[Aardvark]

Humans are not like dogs - there is no hardwired social strata.

 

And since when have humans been magically separated from the rest of the nature world?

 

Of course humans have hardwired social behaviour including group mentality and loyalities.

[Steph]

well, I may be wrong but, in my point of view, patriotism is following the people of your country, while following the government would be (in nation-states at least) nationalism.

in the end though, both are (also in my point of view) roots to many wars. (whether those wars were necessary or not is a whole other topic though)