Helium suit

[Royston]

This would be purely for fun, but what is the equation for a large volume of low density gas effecting the gravitationl pull of a higher density object, if the two are attached.

 

My housemate wondered if you could manufacture a helium suit...and quite literally float around, roughly a foot off the ground. As long as the helium volume is proportianal to the mass it's carrying, surely you could work out how to make the suit float at a regular distance from the ground, by applying earths mass. The shape of the suit maybe odd to attain lift, but a suit all the same.

[insane_alien]

why not just don a suit and tie helium baloons to it. its the same thing. really.

[Royston]

Yeah, but not as practical as filling one container for the gas. It's a gimmick if you like.

[wpenrose]

Those Mylar birthday balloons will do just that, if you leave them in the corner of a room long enough. Eventually, enough gas will leak out that they'll settle toward the floor -- until the string touches. The weight of the string is just enough to bear them down, but once the string touches the floor, the balloon will stop settling and float about the house, sometimes for weeks. We had such a balloon a few years ago. We were likely to find it anywhere in our three story house. It would go up and down stairs, bump into the back of your head while watching TV, etc. We joked that it was haunted. As more helium leaked out, it settled lower on the string until finally it dragged on the floor and we got rid of it (and perhaps the spirit that drove it).

 

Dangerous Bill

[RyanJ]

You'd need a hell of a lot of Helium I'll tell you that - took the Mythbusters a few thousand just to lift a small child off the ground.

 

Cheers,

 

Ryan Jones

[padren]

The problem is even if you had a weightless gas that was even less than helium, you need to displace 150-190 Lbs (68-86 kg) of air to lift someone of that weight.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%27s_atmosphere#Density_and_mass

 

Air has a mass at sea level of about 1.2 kg/m^3

 

So, even if you had something so much lighter than Helium that its own mass in the suit was negliable, you have 81.6 m^3 to displace within the suit. I think that means, it would take more than a 13 foot by 13 foot by 13 foot cube suit to lift a light adult.

 

(pardon my math if its off, its not the best)

[swansont]

This would be purely for fun' date=' but what is the equation for a large volume of low density gas effecting the gravitationl pull of a higher density object, if the two are attached.

[/quote']

 

The gravitational pull of the balloon will be vanishingly small. You aren't affecting the gravitational pull with a balloon.

[Royston]

Thanks for the feedback everyone, obviously totally inpractical...though would be quite amusing floating around in a large inflatable cube.

[5614]

The suit would be soo massive it would be inpractical, but then again maybe if you had helium balloons lifting the person (as opposed to the person wearing a suit) the balloons could be as big as you want, because it's above you, then just have a string coming down which you hold onto and get lifted into the air.

 

Have to do that one day... another pointless life aim!

[Phi for All]

My housemate wondered if you could manufacture a helium suit...and quite literally float around, roughly a foot off the ground.

Think about it, though. Floating would be boring since it's so passive, and you'd need to push off stable objects to get any movement. Sounds like an indoor idea.

 

Wouldn't it be cooler to simply be lighter as opposed to your muscle mass so you could be outside and jump twenty feet or higher and float back to the ground? Then your suit wouldn't need to be as big (but probably still too big to be practical). You'd need six standard commercial helium tanks (the kind you see in stores that sell balloons, approx 230 cubic feet of helium, about US$90 each) to give you enough lift to take ninety pounds of weight off you. That's one big, expensive mylar suit.

[Sisyphus]

Hehe, tie a helium balloon (not a suit, it would be far too much volume) to yourself that gives 90% of your bodyweight in lift, then jump easily over houses, hop off cliffs as if they were a few feet tall, etc.

[Royston]

Well I was going to expand on the idea...which is kinda pointless now, but anyway. I was thinking of some sort of guiding system (fans maybe) which would mean even more weight obviously (I wanted one right on the butt...for lift, just don't fart or you'll shoot into space) , and some sort of helium release in case you float to high. Of course with balloons you could just detach one, and achieve the same effect.

 

Both myself and my housemate were drunk when we were talking about it, and I was drunk when I posted it. I realise it's a silly idea, funny how it seemed like a good idea at the time (and not mine I might add) it would be purely gimmicky, and the fans would have to be pretty powerful to have the desired effect (large batteries et.c)...so the summary then...idiocy!

[Royston]

Think about it, though. Floating would be boring since it's so passive, and you'd need to push off stable objects to get any movement. Sounds like an indoor idea.

 

Well, I reckon kids would enjoy the feeling of floating...it would certainly be something to try at least once...could have lots of kids floating round a gym, something tells me that would be very amusing to watch.

 

Wouldn't it be cooler to simply be lighter as opposed to your muscle mass so you could be outside and jump twenty feet or higher and float back to the ground? Then your suit wouldn't need to be as big (but probably still too big to be practical). You'd need six standard commercial helium tanks (the kind you see in stores that sell balloons, approx 230 cubic feet of helium, about US$90 each) to give you enough lift to take ninety pounds of weight off you. That's one big, expensive mylar suit.

 

Perhaps for the eccentric millionaire then...I did specify that the shape of the suit would be something to consider...majority of the volume above the wearer, but with figures like that, I can see why it hasn't been done before.

 

Hehe, tie a helium balloon (not a suit, it would be far too much volume) to yourself that gives 90% of your bodyweight in lift, then jump easily over houses, hop off cliffs as if they were a few feet tall, etc.

 

Now that would be fun.

[5614]

Enough balloons to lift most of your bodyweight... and then jump... wicked idea!

[dcstegg228]

You'd need a hell of a lot of Helium I'll tell you that - took the Mythbusters a few thousand just to lift a small child off the ground.

 

Cheers' date='

 

Ryan Jones[/quote']

 

I was just gonna say that.

[Phi for All]

Enough balloons to lift most of your bodyweight... and then jump... wicked idea!

I figure if 45 weather balloons could rocket Larry and his Lawnchair to 16,000 feet, 4-6 weather balloons could probably make the average person bouyant enough to broad jump onto the roof of his own house. Think how much fun you could have in a park wearing a simple rock-climbing harness attached to some weather balloons, as long as you remembered that your mass would remain the same.

[Martin]

aerodynamic drag?

 

difficulty controlling your horizontal motion

since it is closely tied to the movement of the surrounding airmass?

[Martin]

for people who like back-of-the-envelope approximate calculation

 

calculate the cubic meters of helium required to float your body, and misc. gear,

 

assuming the molecular weight of helium is 4

and that of air (average 32 oxygen and 28 nitrogen) is 29

 

assuming the mass of a cubic meter of air is 1 kilogram

 

so that the mass of a cubic meter of helium is 4/29 kilogram

 

how big a volume of helium would you need?

 

[EDIT: OOPS! padren already did the calculation in post #6, and Phi also effectively gives an estimate!

maybe i should erase this but for now I will leave it here]

 

 

(relevant to judging the aero drag to be overcome in moving anywhere)

[Phi for All]

aerodynamic drag?

 

difficulty controlling your horizontal motion

since it is closely tied to the movement of the surrounding airmass?

Is this for the OP's floating idea or for the ammended moon-jumping idea?

[Jacques]

I saw someone in Montreal during the festival "Just for Laught" harnested to a big ballon (around 15 feet diameter) and was jumping like an angel in the street ! It was very strange and space out !

[Royston]

I saw someone in Montreal during the festival "Just for Laught" harnested to a big ballon (around 15 feet diameter) and was jumping like an angel in the street ! It was very strange and space out !

 

You just sparked a memory from the Glastonbury festival, where they had a gymnast floating around under a giant balloon...she had a bar underneath (from which she hung onto and performed a routine) and I believe something propelling the balloon along...can't remember if it was tied to something (a vehicle) or had propellers of some sort. The balloon was huge, roughly the same size as you've described.

 

Guess my housemates idea wasn't that daft...suit idea isn't practical, but could be a lot of fun for a well-off individual. I can see why gravity isn't required for working out the amount of helium et.c I'm only 5 weeks into the first year of my degree...so excuse my ignorance as to what's relevant with such applications.

[Phi for All]

Guess my housemates idea wasn't that daft...suit idea isn't practical, but could be a lot of fun for a well-off individual.

Even for a well-off individual, the suit idea isn't the best. A suit would distribute buoyancy around the whole body more evenly and whether you want to float or just jump you would still want your feet oriented to the ground for re-entry. Suspension beneath some kind of balloon is best.

[Royston]

Sorry, I meant using helium as a 'fun' floaty kind of application for one person, not actually the suit idea, which clearly wouldn't work.

 

Sadly the idea was sparked by a young girl who tragically fell to her death after holding onto a load of helium balloons that were handed to her...can't find the article, maybe confused with the same girl in the giant myler balloon incident. This is why we thought it could be possible for someone larger, to quite literally float at a more constant height...just needed the maths to see what volumes et.c were required.

 

Thanks everyone for responding to this anyway.

[YT2095]

I saw someone in Montreal during the festival "Just for Laught" harnested to a big ballon (around 15 feet diameter) and was jumping like an angel in the street ! It was very strange and space out !

 

in that case you should try Power Kites then, same effect more or less, longer jumps!

 

on that note, perhaps some that supplied calculations in here wouldn`t mind taking a look at: http://www.scienceforums.net/forums/showthread.php?t=19453

 

</Plug>

[Royston]

Power kites have really taken off where I used to live...local shop and instructor for kite surfing....the beach is regularly packed with people kite surfing, and just doing huge jumps on the beach...without boards and buggies. Sorry I can't help with the maths - but I could ask someone providing they're on messenger tonight, I'll let you know. A lot of my friends are into power kiting.