Where Science has lead the Modern man

[Guest srirambalu]

Salutations to that Truth-Principle from which all things originate, into which they dissolve and by which they are sustained

 

Where are we going?

--------------------

 

What is indestructible cannot be destroyed.

There is no need to worry about it.

What is destructible cannot be saved.

There is no point in worrying about it.

 

It’s been hardly 100 years and man has progressed so much technologically. More than 90% of the inventions of man have come in these years. Where have all these taken us? Modern civilization is all set for a toss and is not expected to enter the second quarter of the 21st century, not because they have invented the atom bomb, not because of a third world war, not because there is going to be a massive earth quake, Not because the oceans are going to flood the whole of earth, not because a comet is going to strike the earth, not because of aids, not because of terrorism, not because of corruption, not because of the endless divisions of man, but because of their very scientific inventions. Modern civilization is built on wrong foundation. We are dependent on various materials like coal, petrol, diesel, natural gas, iron, steel, aluminium, copper, tungsten, sulphur, silica, sand, gravel, clay and a whole lot of minerals and metals for our survival. Most of these resources have been dug out and consumed and the consumption rate is at an all time high and the grave is ready to bury the modern civilization. They say necessity is the father of invention and kept making all their inventions and optimists may say we will find an alternative for everything as and when they get exhausted, but it will be obvious even to a child that we cannot find an alternative to all the natural resources. It is time for the end of invention and beginning of an exponentially growing necessity. Modern man has made the impossible possible and it is now time for the possible to become impossible. We cannot stop digging because we are very much dependent on the resources. Science has exploited the natural resources and medicine has increased the population. When we look back, why have they made all these inventions and to what end?

 

We were compassionate towards the ailing man and invented all the medicines and surgical methods. We encouraged hard work and said a man should come up in life through his hard work. We encouraged our children to excel in their studies so that they shine in their respective areas. These very things that seem to be a virtue at the individual level have been the curse for the modern civilization because of the exploitation of natural resources and has become a life threat.

 

When I look at what will be a sustainable lifestyle, I am disgusted. A sustainable lifestyle is one in which we get all the products that we need from plants and animals. Man has to live in thatched huts near rivers or lakes, cooking in earthenware using firewood and forget about traveling around the globe. We have come way far from that and cannot think of that. The politicians think power will save them, the rich think money will save them, the devotees think their god will save them, the scientists think their inventions will save them, the workers think their hard work will save them, the students think their excellence in education will save them, but the whole modern civilization is going to topple because it is built on wrong foundation.

 

Where is the creator? What can be his plan? Has he planned for mass destruction? Is he going to replenish all the natural resources for us? It is well within his capacity, but he is not seen to do it. Even the creator seems to believe in evolution and lets time do the needful though initially he is said to have created everything instantaneously. Probably everyone can become yogis so that they can live on just oxygen and sunlight. Surely we cannot continue as we are for long. There will come one day when essential commodities cannot be produced or cannot be transported to where we are. The first among these are petrol, diesel and natural gas. Our smart idiots have invented ways to exploit the natural resources and exhaust them in less than 100 years. This is probably the greatest Guinness record ever. 2 or 3 generations lived in luxury and did they at least live happily or were they worrying that they could not amass enough wealth, could not find the right life partner, could not experience all the luxuries that were invented as of date or could not travel to all the places on earth?

 

We seem to get nowhere. What the hell can we do now? We can just relax, stop striving after money, external accomplishment, stop competing for unnecessary things, stop being ambitious, stop struggling to get promoted, stop working hard to buy a new vehicle, just sustain a livelihood, find inner happiness which is the true nature of man, live a simple life and show love and compassion externally. As Ramana Maharshi points out, happiness is the very nature of the Self. Happiness and the Self are not different. There is no happiness in any object of the world. We imagine through our ignorance that we derive happiness from objects. When the mind goes out, it experiences misery. In truth, when its desires are fulfilled, it returns to its own place and enjoys the happiness that is the Self. Striving after the happiness that is the Self is smart and harmless. All other striving only helps us destroy ourselves faster.

 

The purpose of this document is to invite those people who may be willing to drop out of the mad race that takes humanity nowhere, find the true happiness within and live and die happily. They say the entire world is illusion and nothing except reality exists at all times. From the point of view of a realized sage, that’s true, but how many people are realized? Everyone want themselves, their children and grand children to live happily or atleast the human race to live long, but that seems to be impossible. Probably those tribes who live in Amazon forest and other forests not touched by the modern civilization will live long, if this insane modern man does not drop an atom bomb on their head.

 

I haven’t thought about all these this morning. This used to bother me like anything for a long time, probably from 10 years back. It bothered me as much as The Buddha was bothered when he found for the first time about old age, disease and death. I have found true happiness of the Self and gone beyond life and death, misery and sorrow and no more worry about all these. This is just to ring the bell to those who may be ready to be awakened. A whole lot of books are available in PDF format for download in the site, http://www.ramana-maharshi.org. This is an easy way to get started. I am beyond boundaries and don’t force anyone to follow Ramana Maharshi. Ask your own guru what true happiness is? Find out in your own religion what true happiness is, or ponder on your own what true happiness is, and find it. Then you wouldn’t care where the world goes or your body goes.

 

Your comments are welcome.

 

Thanks,

Sriram.

[ffsjoe]

Thats a pretty bleak view of the world, relax man, the world isn't going to end too soon. Although I agree on global warming, if things do go pear shaped just think about it in the bigger scheme of things, not religous wise but at the universe. Were just one planet doesn't really have much bearing on the universe the world will recycle itself if we do **** up. So if you think outside your own life its just pretty funky that you got to be a part of everything.

 

EDIT: btw whats wrong with your leader dudes forehead?

[The Peon]

Relax man. We live in a pretty stable solar system. Either way, if man gets wiped out we can't say we didnt have a good run.

[Guest srirambalu]

Guys,

 

I'm quite at ease, but my question is not stupid. Micro organisms that existed millions of years ago got burried under the soil and after millions of years became oil. Trees got burried under the soil and after millions of years became coal. If we want those things to get replenished, we will have to wait for another million years.

 

You know how difficult it was to invent the bulb? To find that tungsten when used as a filament will give light the guy had to reject 1000 other filaments. What will we do if we run out of tungsten?

 

Only copper can be used to generate electricity as of now. What will we do when we run out of copper?

 

You know they once used gold and silver coins. They have now become precious things. Other metals will follow suit.

 

I was as much an atheist as anyone else, but didn't stop questioning and have found that this thing called Reality or Truth or whatever you name it exists and when you touch that there is so much bliss that you don't care for anything else.

 

There is no single architech of the modern civilization who looked at the feasibility before starting to build. I was just doing a feasibility check and found that no one else seems to have done and everyone is only competing to invent new things without assessing the feasibility of sustaining their inventions.

 

Let's come back to one point, what will we do when we exhaust oil and coal? As I had mentioned, it will be obvious to a child that they cannot be replenished.

 

The solar system is pretty stable. Nothing has hit the earth in a million years. But, do you know how immobile the US became during the gulf war due to gas shortage. What do you think we can do when we run out of oil?

 

Sriram.

[The Peon]

Is this some sort of religious rant?

 

I was as much an atheist as anyone else, but didn't stop questioning and have found that this thing called Reality or Truth or whatever you name it exists and when you touch that there is so much bliss that you don't care for anything else.

 

I dont want to be filled with so much bliss I dont care for anything else. That sounds like a crackhead getting his fix. No offense...

 

Let's come back to one point, what will we do when we exhaust oil and coal? As I had mentioned, it will be obvious to a child that they cannot be replenished.

 

Do you really think if man faced a truely dire energy crisis he would not adapt? I think clearly what would happen is man would find another way, like he always has. Plenty of sources of energy exist where we would not have to rely on oil or coal.

[Guest srirambalu]

Let's forget about Reality and Bliss, it is for the few introverts who spend years of seeking in aloneness, who could afford to spend time amidst this busy modern world. I'm more concerned about the future of humanity.

 

We have created the problem and we have to solve it. We can't throw it on church or god. There are battery cars and solar cars, but if they were feasible enough, they would have been in mass production already because oil price is increasing day by day. What else do you think can replace oil? We consume oil in such large quantity that the new source should be as big as that. If there were other sources of energy that could replace oil, we should have started to phase out oil. Is there anything like that happening?

[swansont]

You know how difficult it was to invent the bulb? To find that tungsten when used as a filament will give light the guy had to reject 1000 other filaments. What will we do if we run out of tungsten?

 

Only copper can be used to generate electricity as of now. What will we do when we run out of copper?

 

You know they once used gold and silver coins. They have now become precious things. Other metals will follow suit.

 

How is the difficulty of invention of the light bulb any different than any other cutting-edge invention? They all require a lot of work and lead to many dead ends. Thus is the nature of research. We run out of tungsten' date=' we use something else. Do compact fluorescent bulbs rely on tungsten? Same thing with copper - it's not the only metal that conducts electricity. And gold & silver were used as coins [i']because[/i] they were precious metals.

 

When oil becomes expensive enough, alternatives will emerge because they are economically viable. That's not to say that the government can't nudge things along, but they have to have some idea of what they are doing (e.g. Hydrogen from electrolysis is not an energy source)

[YT2095]

Guys' date='

 

I'm quite at ease, but my question is not stupid. Micro organisms that existed millions of years ago got burried under the soil and after millions of years became oil. Trees got burried under the soil and after millions of years became coal.[/quote']

 

and so your point is what? we don`t have trees and micro-organisms anymore

[The Peon]

Let's forget about Reality and Bliss' date=' it is for the few introverts who spend years of seeking in aloneness, who could afford to spend time amidst this busy modern world. I'm more concerned about the future of humanity.

 

We have created the problem and we have to solve it. We can't throw it on church or god. There are battery cars and solar cars, but if they were feasible enough, they would have been in mass production already because oil price is increasing day by day. What else do you think can replace oil? We consume oil in such large quantity that the new source should be as big as that. If there were other sources of energy that could replace oil, we should have started to phase out oil. Is there anything like that happening?[/quote']

 

 

I think your logic is flawed for 1 reason alone. Money. You can't really tax a solar powered cars energy. Oil and the combustion engine is a comfortable situation for world leaders. It provides millions upon millions in energy tax. Maybe im talking conspiracy theory here, but I would guess that the reason the combustion engine is still around has to do with simple cold hard cash.

[YT2095]

well unless there`s a synth for the Home Chemist to make his own Effective/Efficient solar cells (and AFAIK there isn`t) then they would simply just put the tax on the panels themselves, in fact I`m not 100% sure they don`t already!

[Edward Duffy]

I agree with Peon that the taxes on petrol are a big incentive to keep using it for as long as possible, but if all the oil went away tomorrow we would switch to alcohol in a heartbeat. It would be more expensive and less efficient, but it would work.

I do agree that our culture of mass production/consumption seems pretty pointless sometimes, but there are ways to opt out if you are so inclined. You can be a priest, a nun, a monk or a hermit if you'd rather. And as ffsjoe pointed out, if humans screw themselves, the planet and the universe will get over it.

[The Peon]

well unless there`s a synth for the Home Chemist to make his own Effective/Efficient solar cells (and AFAIK there isn`t) then they would simply just put the tax on the panels themselves, in fact I`m not 100% sure they don`t already!

 

YT true, but remember you can only tax a solar panel once, and not that much at that. Maybe 6-10% of the value max. Now imagine being able to tax a fuel source that is constantly used over and over and needed over and over so long as you wished to travel.

[swansont]

YT true, but remember you can only tax a solar panel once, and not that much at that. Maybe 6-10% of the value max. Now imagine being able to tax a fuel source that is constantly used over and over and needed over and over so long as you wished to travel.

 

I have great faith (unfortunately) that politician will never run out of ideas of things to tax.

[The Peon]

I have great faith (unfortunately) that politician will never run out of ideas of things to tax.

 

 

Well they tried to tax the internet and that failed. I would hope they cant find a way to tax "solar energy." I mean how would they read such a thing? Wait never mind... several ways come to mind. But compared to the ability to tax fossil fuels it seems a tad outlandish.

[Guest srirambalu]

Do compact fluorescent bulbs rely on tungsten?

That's good news to me.

 

Same thing with copper - it's not the only metal that conducts electricity.

I heard only copper coil can be used in generators though other metals conduct the electricity generated.

 

and so your point is what? we don`t have trees and micro-organisms anymore

Probably we'll get burried and become oil in a million years.

 

As per using solar power, we have to be concerned about our friends in Norway and Sweden. Are you aware they have 6 months of day and 6 months of night.

 

if all the oil went away tomorrow we would switch to alcohol in a heartbeat. It would be more expensive and less efficient, but it would work.

Inefficiency of alcohol aside, do you think alcohol can be produced in such large quantities as oil? Will the same engines accept alcohol or we will have to replace or modify all our engines?

 

You can be a priest, a nun, a monk or a hermit if you'd rather.

I'm already a kind'o Monk. Was just checkin' if I will get food for the rest of my life or my bread will get stuck on the road because the truck went out of fuel and there was no more fuel.

 

BTW, I'm not that kind of dry Monk who lives with closed eyes, endlessly chanting something. I'm the kind who doesn't compete with immature fellow humans for resources, who believes in living life, whose only purpose on earth is to watch flowers bloom, bees buzz, butterflies flutter in the air, birds sing, breeze flow, waves unfold, sun and moon rise and set, seasons change and watch all other miracles in nature without destroying it.

 

Why should we live in the prison called school, get transfered to the prison called college and end up in the prison called office? It is all Self-Imposed and we cannot drop out even if we want to. We will be left out.

 

Coming back to our serious talk, it is not a priority to know what is happening in Pluto. Our first priority is to find an alternative and phase out oil and coal. Our second priority is to assess the quantities of non replenishable resources, find out when they will get exhausted and plan for an alternative, hopefully using replenishable resource. Nations should join and do this.

[Pleiades]

You don’t need solar panels to get electricity from the sun, mirrors can be used to boil water and drive turbines, and this is probably even within reach of a DIY enthusiast. As far as we are concerned, the sun is an infinite source of energy, as long as it shines on the Earth, there will always be ways to harness it.

 

Our natural resources on earth won’t just runt out, its not like once you throw something away it just disappears, the materials are still there, and they can be reclaimed (mining of landfills etc). The reason recycling isn’t as widespread as it could be is simply because it’s cheaper to get the materials out of the Earth than it is to recycle them. It’s the same thing with alternatives to fossil fuels: they are the cheapest form of energy at the moment, once they become too expensive, we’ll just switch to the next cheapest energy source.

 

There are many people who go around removing copper pipes and wires from abandoned buildings and sell them to be recycled.

 

Just because a country is in darkness for half a year doesn’t mean they can’t buy energy from another country that has a surplus

 

Existing petrol and diesel engines require little to no modification to burn biofuels like ethanol and biodiesel.

 

Besides, there’s a whole solar system of resources just waiting to be exploited!

 

I will admit that society is entirely unbalanced: as a species humans are technological masters, but spiritual infants. Following the golden rule is a good place to start: “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”

[Guest srirambalu]

If solar energy can be used to generate electricity for large scale usage, what are we waiting for? It is free and we should have already built solar power houses. The fact is that solar energy cannot supply our huge needs.

 

As for using solar power to drive vehicles, I have seen those flimsy vehicles with huge solar panels that move at slow speeds in discovery channel. Solar power cannot drive our heavy vehicles.

 

All the materials cannot be recycled. Recently some local groups in India were fighting against some countries dumping their electronic waste in india. Some illiterate people in India accept those wastes because they contain few metals that can be recovered and sold for little money. If those electronic wastes can be recycled, why don't those countries preserve them? They say electronic wastes are an environmental hazard and we are so much dependent on electronic goods.

 

I accept that ethanol and bio-diesel can replace petrol and diesel. We need to depend on plants for those and in these days when we change all cultivable land to housing colonies, we have to stop doing that and rather find more cultivable land and invest in them, plan properly and invest in infrastructure for mass production of ethanol and bio-diesel after assessing the needs. All that takes time and we have to plan ahead. Rather than waiting for the extinction of fossil fuels, we have to phase them out gracefully.

 

Let's be practical and forget about exploiting resources from other planets. It takes so much time, money and effort to just get to the space and return. We went to the moon only once and could not get anything other than a few stones as mementos. We couldn't even get gold.

 

Let me open one more issue. Don't get intimidated! I have to open these up because no one else seems to care for them. I have seen in discovery channel old skyscrapers being blown up and reduced to dust. It has been less than 100 years since we have built them, so only a few buildings are demolished that way. Probably they will recover a few metals from the dust, but the remaining dust is a waste and where you throw them, that place is going to become infertile. As buildings get old, we will have to demolish and rebuild on a large scale. Even at this time, where I am they say it is very difficult to get sand! If we can't get even sand which is a pure raw material, I only wonder how they will produce cement which has to go through so much of processing.

[ffsjoe]

I'm the kind who doesn't compete with immature fellow humans for resources,

 

Your not using a computer then are you? Or electricity?

 

who believes in living life, whose only purpose on earth is to watch flowers bloom, bees buzz, butterflies flutter in the air, birds sing, breeze flow, waves unfold, sun and moon rise and set, seasons change and watch all other miracles in nature without destroying it.

 

Ok, lets go and look at the flowers and free load of other people.

 

We need to depend on plants for those and in these days when we change all cultivable land to housing colonies, we have to stop doing that and rather find more cultivable land and invest in them, plan properly and invest in infrastructure for mass production of ethanol and bio-diesel after assessing the needs. All that takes time and we have to plan ahead. Rather than waiting for the extinction of fossil fuels, we have to phase them out gracefully.

 

Let's be practical and forget about exploiting resources from other planets. It takes so much time, money and effort to just get to the space and return. We went to the moon only once and could not get anything other than a few stones as mementos. We couldn't even get gold.

 

I thought you were out looking at the flowers.

 

Humans change the environment to suit them. They don't adapt to the environment. Its a mighty snowball to stop, it has been rolling for a long time.

[YT2095]

Probably we'll get burried and become oil in a million years.

 

no Probably about it, those that don`t opt for cremation will invariably go that way. and the ones that Do opt for cremation will most certainly be "in the system" already in a much shorter time span.

[herme3]

A sustainable lifestyle is one in which we get all the products that we need from plants and animals. Man has to live in thatched huts near rivers or lakes, cooking in earthenware using firewood and forget about traveling around the globe.

 

That's not the lifestyle for me! I doubt you would want that either.

 

Sure, you can go on a little nature walk on a warm day and enjoy your plants and animals. Then you can come inside, turn on the A/C, and then write posts like this on your computer.

 

What if you were really living in a hut? Out in the rain, snow, and hurricanes? Out in the extreme temperatures of summer and winter? What if you had to go hunting for your own food, and struggle to survive?

 

If you think that our ancestors lived some nice life in paradise, you are wrong. The survival rate was low, and lots of people died at young ages. Do you really think our ancestors were happier than we are today? Do you really think the tribes in the Amazon are enjoying this type of lifestyle? Unlike what you think, I doubt they have time to sit around enjoying the plants and animals. They are most likely fighting to survive. They are probably wishing we would drop an atomic bomb on their heads!

 

Our lives are so much better than tribal lives and the lives of our ancestors. Who cares how long the human race survives? I don't care about my descendants. All that matters is that we are happy while we are surviving.

[YT2095]

I'm the kind who doesn't compete with immature fellow humans for resources' date=' who believes in living life, whose only purpose on earth is to watch flowers bloom, bees buzz, butterflies flutter in the air, birds sing, breeze flow, waves unfold, sun and moon rise and set, seasons change and watch all other miracles in nature without destroying it.

[/quote']

 

well yeah, I can totaly get my head around that, I love all those things too! I also grow my own Veg etc...

I like some of them Raw too, but I draw the line at potatoes for instance and I like them Cooked, sadly that makes CO2:eek:

 

I live with that Guilt:rolleyes:

[Guest srirambalu]

Your not using a computer then are you? Or electricity?

I need some minimum resources to survive. We need not always compete to acquire resources. If somebody competes with me for a resource I would rather give it to him without questioning.

 

Humans change the environment to suit them. They don't adapt to the environment. Its a mighty snowball to stop, it has been rolling for a long time.

I know. We are into it and can't stop. We can probably change course a little bit. That's the max we can do and all that we talk here is for that.

 

That's not the lifestyle for me! I doubt you would want that either.

I agree with you. I already told I was disgusted to find about that sustainable lifestyle.

 

What if you were really living in a hut? Out in the rain, snow, and hurricanes? Out in the extreme temperatures of summer and winter? What if you had to go hunting for your own food, and struggle to survive?

For you and me, that may sound mean. I'm wondering how The Buddha lived in 500BC without even a thatched hut, begging for food. For sure he was the happiest person ever. It has to do purely with the mind. We don't accept things the way they are. We succeed in changing the environment and there comes a point where we can't change the environment and we get disgusted.

 

Ramana Maharshi who has disciples world wide lived a simple life in caves in the hill called Arunachala along with all kinds of insects when he could have easily lived a luxurious life. He claimed he was happy there! and he is the person who told happiness is not in the objects of the world. That was not long back. It was in the early 1900's.

http://www.ramana-maharshi.org/photos/photos.htm

 

Who knows? the tribes im amazon may be happier than us. Only from our point of view their life is impossible.

 

We can conclude that we have made life better for the common man. For the saints it was the same always as from the above 2 examples. We have to learn from those so that we atleast know to appreciate our a/c, refrigerator, car etc.

[YT2095]

but what is Science? and how can it be responsible for all that you claim it is?

 

don`t you think that these people in the Amazon for instance don`t have their OWN Knowledge, even if it`s only the best way to kill an animal or what plant fixes what problem or is safe to eat, how do I start a fire to keep my family warm and so forth, isn`t that Also Science!

 

I seriosly don`t think you can (in all good conscience) blame Scientist for the problems today, now if you`de have said Money or Greed etc... I`de be much more inclined to agree with you!

[Guest srirambalu]

Greed, money and science work together to exploit nature. I could pull out a document that I wrote a few years back on similar lines. Do go through it. I agree scientists are nice innocent people who feed the greedy and the monied with their inventions. Overall it doesn't help.

Science.doc

[YT2095]

everyone that Breathes does that also, are we to condemn All?