help a children's writer pleeeease

[Vashti]

ok - so I openly admit I know practically nothing about chemistry. I'm writing a book for children at the moment aimed at the 8-12 age range. As part of my plot I need a chemistry experiment which a 12 year old would be able to do. I would like it to push the limits and maybe be slightly dangerous; perhaps include a noisy, visual or smelly reaction. It's set in school and the chemistry teacher is nasty so I need it to be something contraversial - perhaps not widely used in school. It must use some sort of open jar that can be lidded after the experiment, and it needs to ideally involve the use of a solid.

 

Is there some sort of simple experiment where you put something solid in a liquid of sorts and maybe heat it and cause a reaction????

 

Am I making any sort of sense? Please reply in a chemistry for dummies kind of way - any help very gratefully received!

Thanks

[Klaynos]

Sodium in water...

 

There are several otehr elements that will have stronger or weaker effects (the ground 1 elements, the left hand coloumn if you look at a periodic table)...

 

http://www.uni-siegen.de/~pci/versuche/english/v44-1-1.html

[Vashti]

thanks - I looked at the link and that looks like the sort of thing!

Vashti

[swansont]

You want a dangerous reaction that an 8-12 year-old might try and repeat?

[YT2095]

how about a lump of Zinc Sulphide in some Vinigar or any type of Acid, it fizzes and gives a horrible Rotten Eggs smell, and is Also accelerated by heating, as well as being easily "disarmed" by taking the solid ZnS out of the acid

 

it`s basicly Stink Bomb gas, and using mild acids even if a child DID try this no harm would occur, but you`de get an awful lot of laughs in a classroom, and really annoy the teacher!

 

the gas is H2S (it IS toxic) but in the levels given off with a solid lump in vinigar wouldn`t hurt a soul!

 

hand out the clothes pegs for the noses!

 

edit: as an afterthought, how about make up some chem names/reactions anyway, they don`t have to real (do they?) a fine ballance of Idiotic and Moronic acid was left to gently warm as the lump of Unobtanium carefully made it`s way out of the jar directly into the excited hand of (insert kids name)....

[ecoli]

out of curiosity, what is the book about?

[Vashti]

Thanks for the stink bomb idea, I like that and also I love the Moronic acid! That's the nice thing about writing fiction; artistic licence. I can mess around with scientific theories and play with what ifs. I'll probably use a mixture of reality and made up but I think it is important to have some fact in there.

 

In a nutshell the story is about a boy who accidently creates a miniature Big Bang in a science experiment at school. There is more to it but that is the essence of the story. I'm fascinated by the Big Bang and all the ideas around it and love writing so it gives me a chance to explore ideas in my own way. Hopefully, if I ever get published (which is highly unlikely!) children will like it too. It's like planting a seed; I would like to think that I could write something that may inspire kids into thinking about the Universe etc. Does that sound daft? I used to love thinking about that stuff when I was 12!

 

Also, don't worry I wouldn't use anything that would be genuinely too dangerous for 8-12's!

 

Having said that what about George's Marvellous Medicine? If fiction didn't push the boundaries a little bit it may not be so exciting. I'm sure countless cupboards have been emptied in homes around the world and mixed into various potions after that book was read - actually including mine!

 

Thanks for tips - am in awe of knowledge - I knew I should have taken Chemistry at school - we could only choose 2 out of 3 sciences so I took Biology and Physics - oops

 

Vashti

[budullewraagh]

moronic acid actually exists, so you may want to use that.

 

yt, hydrogen sulfide really isn't something to joke about. it's a really good way to die in 10 minutes and not even notice the gas is still around when it kills the nerves in your nose.

[YT2095]

not in those quantities it isn`t, else half the population would be dead before leaving school from stink bombs!

[jdurg]

not in those quantities it isn`t, else half the population would be dead before leaving school from stink bombs!

 

Stink bombs don't use hydrogen sulfide to emit their odor. If they did, there's no way they could be sold. Stink bombs typically use sulfur dioxide as an "oderant" as it is quite easy to make and doesn't have the toxic effects that H2S does. (I won't get into a discussion on how to easily make it from stuff in the home, but it doesn't take much to generate it). In addition, it is also quite easy to detect in small quantities. Methyl mercaptan is another sulfur containing gas that is used in stink bombs as it is REALLY easy to detect and is not toxic like H2S.

 

(EDIT: I also forgot to mention Ammonium Sulfide. (NH4)2S is a liquid which can easily be mixed in with other solvents and create a HORRIBLE odor in small quantities all the while being aeorosolized(sp?) quite readily. It is a reactive compound and kind of nasty, but not nearly as toxic as H2S is).

[YT2095]

if detectable amounts of H2S were THAT Toxic, flatulence wouldn`t be half as funny! (or would it? I dunno).

 

fact is, the goal was to Annoy the teacher, and if he whiffed that, he`de be forced to evacuate the room, Also, we used to make this stuff in chem as Part of the curiculum anyway, non of us died!

 

I think there`s a slight case of Over-Reacting here!

[woelen]

Here, I agree with YT, H2S indeed is very toxic, but not THAT toxic, that stink bombs cannot be made with it.

 

A solution of (NH4)2S or NH4HS is as toxic as H2S. It immedialely breaks down in NH3 and H2S, NH3 being the much less toxic part. So, the toxicity of ammonium sulphide is determined by the H2S released from it.

 

In photography, Na2S is used as an important part of a sepia toner. People are always warned about the dangers of sulphide. What is stated, is that in a normally ventilated average sized room a safe amount of Na2S is approximately 2 grams. Even if by accident the entire amount were plunged into an acidic stopbath with subsequent release of H2S, then one does not need to worry about irreversible health risks.

 

I myself take a lower safety threshold (appr. 250 mg), but if this kind of figures is given, then I would not worry about H2S-based stink bombs, which only contain mg's of the compound. Yes, 250 mg is sufficient to stink away every person in the house from every room.

 

Also, H2S has no cumulative effects. Small time exposure does not lead to buildup of toxic effects.

[RyanJ]

Well, the usual thing - people like bangs!

 

Sodium bicarbonate and vinegar in a tub is fizzy...

 

Heating Copper(II) sulphate pentahydrate and watch it go from blue too white and then adding water and watching it to back to blue

 

Those should be resonably safe I think

 

Cheers,

 

Ryan Jones

[YT2095]

it doesn`t exactly meet the criteria outlined in the original post though does it.

[RyanJ]

it doesn`t exactly meet the criteria outlined in the original post though does it.

 

OOPs missed that part... there is always ammonium nitrate and water - thats pretty cool

 

Cheers,

 

Ryan Jones

[YT2095]

LOL, In more ways than one

[RyanJ]

LOL, In more ways than one

 

Yea - great fun to watch the water freeze, its certainly an unexpected reaction and most people don't see it comming. Lot of people expect heat and explosions why not shock them with a unexpected cold snap

 

Cheers,

 

Ryan Jones

[budullewraagh]

if you're going to write about kids playing with H2S you may as well make it HCN. despite it being less detectable, it works in the same way as and, though it is less toxic than H2S, is at least more well known by parents who can shield their kids from such writings

[RyanJ]

if you're going to write about kids playing with H2S you may as well make it HCN. despite it being less detectable, it works in the same way as and, though it is less toxic than H2S, is at least more well known by parents who can shield their kids from such writings

 

Is it? Always though hydrogen cyanide was more toxic.

 

Cheers,

 

Ryan Jones

[woelen]

HCN is more toxic than H2S, but both are quite toxic. Compare the numbers in the two MSDS's below.

 

http://www.physchem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/HY/hydrogen_sulfide.html

http://www.physchem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/HY/hydrogen_cyanide.html

 

However, the stink bombs generate concentrations quite a lot below 1 ppm, so I see no real danger from them. Also, exposure to these things usually is just for seconds, maybe minutes.

 

HCN is much more associated with danger, the bad side of science, poison etc. This is due to its historical misuse. Cyanides were used for poisoning purposes frequently and in WWII the gas is used for killing millions of Jews.

If H2S were used for that purpose, than that gas probably would have the same negative associations in society.

[jdurg]

H2S would have probably been more effective because of how it anesthetizes one's sense of smell. If you're in a room with H2S gas present, you'll notice the horrific odor immediately but soon afterwards you won't be able to smell it. However if someone else who hasn't been exposed to it walks into the room they'll immediately notice it.

 

My freshman year of college, someone one in a general chemistry lab cleaning up glassware and dumped two clear liquids into the waste disposal bin. (One was a nearly saturated Na2S solution, the other was HCl). The student noticed the rotted odor and just dumped the solution down the sink and flushed it with water and continued to work. The problem was that his sense of smell was numbed. He thought the gas was gone, but he just couldn't smell it. Thankfully, a professor walked by the lab and smelled the H2S and immediately pulled the kid out of the lab and sent him off to the ER.