pcs Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 For all the ridiculous comparisons people make between American Christian evangelists and the traditional vein of imams, I wonder why no one ever mentions men like Amr Khaled, someone who actually engages in televangelism, has diversified his message with appeals to young Muslims to stay fit, develop hobbies and an interest in bettering their communities, and all without the cosmopolitan learnedness typical of the Islamic and...yes, left-leaning Christian clergy? Islamic Televangelist Risks PopularityBy NADIA ABOU El-MAGD' date=' Associated Press Writer 12:14 PM PST, March 20, 2006 CAIRO, Egypt -- Islamic televangelist Amr Khaled is young, smiling, teaches love and mercy, and is so popular he's credited with inspiring thousands of women to take the veil. Now he's putting his popularity on the line by trying a new role, as a bridge between Islam and the West at a time when many are talking about a clash of civilizations.[/quote'] More here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcol Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 When faced with a report in The Times (U.K.) this morning, see timesonline.co.uk/world, concerning a man in Kabul facing the death penalty for the anti-Islamic offence of being a Christian, Quote: “He would be forgiven if he changed back, but he said he was a Christian and would always remain one . . . We are Muslims and becoming a Christian is against our laws. He must get the death penalty.” In the first hearing of Mr Rahman’s case, Judge Zada, the head of the Primary Court, said that a verdict would be reached within two months. Then your man becomes yet another apologian, putting a selective veneer of swetness and light on an implacable and destructive religion to snare the naive and gullible. A plague on all fundamentalist and extremist religions and their promotors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcs Posted March 21, 2006 Author Share Posted March 21, 2006 Then your man becomes yet another apologian, putting a selective veneer of swetness and light on an implacable and destructive religion to snare the naive and gullible. A plague on all fundamentalist and extremist religions and their promotors. So the other sides argument is to paint men like Amr Khaled, and go farther and color Christian ministers in this country, with the same brush as religious statists thousands of miles and a world's worth of ideological difference away. Classic. I'm glad to know I can view every atheist here with the same lens I apply to Stalin. Even myself, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcol Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 I was trying to be even-handed. It is easy to be seduced by the fine words of a marketing front man, especially when he actually believes his own propaganda. The most dangerous kind. Even Stalin was a propagandist. I do not believe he was devoid of a hidden agenda, the one he thought his acolytes unworthy to know. I give your man the benefit of the doubt, for the moment, for genuinely believing his own words. I just want to dig down to the real nitty-gritty bedrock position beneath the seducing voice of sweet reasonableness. I would not use his name in the same breath as Stalin's, Yor man's error is probably one of self-delusion. Allow me to be sceptical, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcs Posted March 21, 2006 Author Share Posted March 21, 2006 Allow me to be sceptical, that's all. So long as I can be equally skeptical of secularists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcol Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 I would encourage you to be sceptical about them. I, however, do not consider myself a secularist, unless being a strict agnostic counts as such. You see him as reasonable an emoluent, that is fine, I hope you are not consigning me to the asylum of secularism simply for having a such a sceptical view. strange how even two sceptics can arrive at different opinions. one or both of us needs to sharpen their sceptic scalpels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcol Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 An afterthought.... If your man can acquire a significant number of followers, or encourage a shall I say "friendlier" version of Islam, I will give him tacit support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcs Posted March 21, 2006 Author Share Posted March 21, 2006 I would encourage you to be sceptical about them. I, however, do not consider myself a secularist, unless being a strict agnostic counts as such. Under the prevailing rules of evidence, it does. You see him as reasonable an emoluent, that is fine, I hope you are not consigning me to the asylum of secularism simply for having a such a sceptical view. I am in an effort to mirror your own skepticism. ...strange how even two sceptics can arrive at different opinions. one or both of us needs to sharpen their sceptic scalpels. Or carry their skepticism through to its logical conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcol Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Or carry their skepticism through to its logical conclusion. And in your opinion, that direction might be.....? (a genuine question, not meant to be smart-ass) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcs Posted March 21, 2006 Author Share Posted March 21, 2006 And in your opinion, that direction might be.....? (a genuine question, not meant to be smart-ass) That I can paint secularists the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 For all the ridiculous comparisons people make between American Christian evangelists and the traditional vein of imams' date=' [b']I wonder why no one ever mentions men like Amr Khaled[/b], someone who actually engages in televangelism, has diversified his message with appeals to young Muslims to stay fit, develop hobbies and an interest in bettering their communities, and all without the cosmopolitan learnedness typical of the Islamic and...yes, left-leaning Christian clergy? More here... (emphasis added) Are there many "men like Amr Khaled" or is the LA Times giving him this press precisely because he is so unusual? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcs Posted March 21, 2006 Author Share Posted March 21, 2006 Are there many "men like Amr Khaled" or is the LA Times giving him this press precisely because he is so unusual? The point is that people here frequently compare Christian American evangelists to the worst Islamofacists. I intend to adopt their convention and lump them in with Stalin. And considering how ill mannered and crabby they mostly seem to be, I'm probably closer to the mark than they are in their comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 The point is that people here frequently compare Christian American[/i'] evangelists to the worst Islamofacists. I intend to adopt their convention and lump them in with Stalin. And considering how ill mannered and crabby they mostly seem to be, I'm probably closer to the mark than they are in their comparison. Ah. I see what you mean and think you have a valid point. I was heartened to see the article on Amr Khaled and was hoping that he was the tip of a moderate islamic ice berg. Maybe I should be satisfied he hasn't been assassinated yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcol Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Have I missed a big jump in the purpose of the OP here? Pcs seemed at first to be quoting his man as a shining beacon of sweet reason. I pointed out that it is a normal and possibly legitimate ploy of a front man to employ such a tactic to blind the gullible and naive to the reality of an idea that is basically offensive to many. Next we have a jump to christian Evangelicals, then a jump to comparing both Imams and Evangelicals to Stalin. I have no problem with that as a basis for discussion, but I still dont see where his initial example pointed us in that direction. It annoys me to find I have responded to something that was not clear. For someone who is such a stickler for logic and clarity he should have clearly stated his real position at the outset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguy2 Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 For someone who is such a stickler for logic and clarity he should have clearly stated his real position at the outset. disingenuous. lacking in frankness? maybe, but I would still like to hear more about this Amr Khaled. aguy2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcs Posted March 23, 2006 Author Share Posted March 23, 2006 Next we have a jump to christian Evangelicals, then a jump to comparing both Imams and Evangelicals to Stalin. I see where you went astray. I criticized the comparison of Christian evangelicals to bloody-minded imams (in the OP) by lumping in secularists with Stalin (which follows directly from the OP). You may continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcol Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 You may continue. Thank you kindly, but am not sure in which direction.....mislaid my compass! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john5746 Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 I see where you went astray. I criticized the comparison of Christian evangelicals to bloody-minded imams (in the OP) by lumping in secularists with Stalin (which follows directly from the OP). You may continue. I agree with you, both points are bigoted and invalid, although swiping all secularists is more broad than evangelical Christians. But, I can still compare those evangelicals who consider the whole Islamic religion evil to those imams who think the opposite. Edited: As for the Amr Khaled guy, well the evangelicals can invite him to speak to their sheep. Sounds like a good idea to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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