The EU Just Wants Money

[herme3]

I just can't believe that lack of common sense that the EU has. Just read this article: http://money.cnn.com/2006/03/29/news/international/eu_microsoft.reut/index.htm

 

They said, "We are concerned about the possibility that the next Vista operating system will include various elements which are currently available separately from Microsoft or other companies." This is absolutely the craziest thing I've ever heard. My car came with a car stereo, and those are available separately from other companies. I guess the automobile companies should be fined money too...

 

Why can't they understand that sometimes products need to be included with other products? Imagine a computer without a processor, or a television without any speakers. In the same way, an operating system should include additional products.

 

The whole Windows Media Player incident just showed how unintelligent the EU is. It was just an additional feature. It wasn't harming the competition. Anyone with Windows Media Player could also install iTunes, RealPlayer, or another media player without any trouble. What is the difference between Windows XP having a media player, and an automobile having a car stereo?

[Klaynos]

I can see where they're comming from because of the massive consumer market share that windows has. But I also don't paticually like the idea of getting an OS without a web browser or media play either easily installable (yeay for package management) or pre-installed. Possibly the thing to do is supply more than one but that's just bloating the OS...

 

I doubt this is just after money given that:

 

EU Budget 2006 ~ € 121 billion

[Dak]

the eu descided that microsoft was misusing it's monopoly, and made certain demands of microsoft.

 

one, for example, was either to stop bundling IE with their OS's, or to provide an uninstaller for it (can't remember which).

 

given that m$ have been warned, if they now bring out vista and it has IE fully integrated (and thus unremovable) with the OS then, tbh, m$ have no right to complain if they get sued as a punishment.

 

Its not really any different from what the US govournment did to m$ because it felt that it was misusing its monopoly.

 

What is the difference between Windows XP having a media player, and an automobile having a car stereo?

 

one car manufacturer doesnt stand gargantuan over the others.

[bluesmudge]

I thought Microsoft had already been told off about bundling media player with the OS, and their way round it was to sell it with and without mediaplayer bundled for the same price . . . . if only i remember where i heard it

[Aeternus]

If I remember rightly, it isn't just that they are bundling the software with the OS, it's more that with those softwares they have an unfair advantage in its interoperability and capabilities with regard to the OS. So they can tie IE and MediaPlayer etc into the OS more and offer more features because they have more access to the underlying roots of the system and have a better idea on how it works because of this.

 

The EU made demands that Microsoft better document certain APIs and protocols etc to allow competition to interoperate with the system more easily and to remove the advantage that it has over its competitors in certain areas. There has been a growing concern that its dominance in certain areas, along with its proprietary formats will end up locking companies and even government sectors into its products (which is obviously a bad thing).

 

Links -

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/03/11/eu_ms_response/

 

While I agree that slamming a company for including software with it is rather off, this isn't the issue really and is more about Microsoft in general using its market dominance to try and lock the market in and prevent others from entering said markets.

[swansont]

They said' date=' "We are concerned about the possibility that the next Vista operating system will include various elements which are currently available separately from Microsoft or other companies." This is absolutely the craziest thing I've ever heard. My car came with a car stereo, and those are available separately from other companies. I guess the automobile companies should be fined money too...

[/quote']

 

But you can pull the stereo out if you want to install another one. The Micro$oft analogy would be a stero that you had to add without removing the pre-installed one (because it's integral to the system and the car wouldn't run properly without it) and wouldn't necessarily run as well because nobody let the stereo manufacturer know what wiring was needed.

[Dak]

and that randomly unlocked your car door. but, even given the security worries, you still can't remove it, 'cos it's wired in serial with your headlights, so if you take the sterio out your lights wont work anymore and your car will crash.

[Dave]

As Aeternus rightly points out, the problem is not only that Microsoft shipped Media Player with XP, but the lack of documentation for the APIs, stopping rival companies producing similar products. The reason that the EU is taking Microsoft to the cleaners is that they are deliberately dragging their heels in producing the aforementioned documentation, because they know that ultimately it will affect their profit margins.

 

You call the EU "unintelligent". Frankly, this is one of the better judgements they've made. A company whose sole aim is to stifle other, and potentially far better products with such a massive market share needs to be told when to stop.

[bluesmudge]

Lets face it, its very pointless to own a computer that comes with neither a Internet Browser and a Media player, especially when you consider for alot of home users this is the main point of the machine . . . . and of course i wouldn't trus must home users to take it out of the box, let alone install their own choice of browser and media player . . . . removing them from the OS is pointless - though i suppose it gives IT support something to do!

 

As for rooting things like IE deeply into the OS making it difficult not to use it for something or other I must i admit that is a pain - especially as this is the cause of most of XP's security flaws - but it , makes for good consistancy in the operations of the OS and therefore arguably better for low skill users.

[herme3]

Windows Media Player isn't wired into Windows XP. It is located at: C:\Program Files\Windows Media Player

 

There are some shared files in the C:\Windows\System32 folder that Media Player uses. However, manually removing Windows Media Player and its shortcuts should not cause Windows XP to crash.

[herme3]

Wait... I was wrong.

 

Try deleting the files in the Windows Media Player folder. It will let you delete all of them, but Windows Media Player will automatically repair itself! The files you just deleted will still be in the Recycle Bin, but there will be new copies of the same files in the Windows Media Player folder. How does it do that?

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

By being integrated into Windows and being clever.

[swansont]

Wait... I was wrong.

 

Try deleting the files in the Windows Media Player folder. It will let you delete all of them' date=' but Windows Media Player will automatically repair itself! The files you just deleted will still be in the Recycle Bin, but there will be new copies of the same files in the Windows Media Player folder. How does it do that?[/quote']

 

I'm guessing that there's an installer file that regenerates the missing material every time you restart the program (or computer).

 

Microsoft Office on the Mac is similar: it has "features" that you can't turn off, like the Adobe toolbar, which is massive bloatware (it really slows down an already slow program) and unnecessary to boot, because Macs can already print to pdf automatically. You can't just delete the files that generate the toolbar, because they willl reappear next time you run the program. You have to create empty folders with the right names, so that the program will "think" that the Adobe toolbar creation files are already there. I hate Microsoft.

[1veedo]

If only more people knew about the alternatives to being stuck with Microsoft's bullshit.

 

If they made genuine good products there would be less to complain about. The only reason they stay afloat is because they know how to abuse the system. Most people who use computers are stupid and dont know any better. What do they know about any of this?

[5614]

Most people who use computers are stupid and dont know any better.

I would say that this problem [in the quote] is even bigger than the MS problem.

[herme3]

I figured out how Windows recreates the files when you delete them. It copies them from C:\Windows\System32\dllcache

 

If delete a file from both locations, you will need the setup disc to reinstall it.