Need help with a girl. Girls and Guys please read this and tell me what I should do.

[-Demosthenes-]

I was young once too, but I was never quite so naive.

 

You missed out. Being naive was the most interesting 48 hours of my life

[Bettina]

I was young once too, but I was never quite so naive.

 

Some of us "naive" people try to help others the best we can because we can relate from actual experiences. It does no good to come here and call our advice bull****.

 

Bee

[Severian]

Some of us "naive" people try to help others the best we can because we can relate from actual experiences.

 

Some of you "naive" people do more harm than good when trying to 'help'.

 

It does no good to come here and call our advice bull****.

 

Oh no? And what if it is bullshit? Should I not point it out?

[bascule]

Some of you "naive" people do more harm than good when trying to 'help'.

 

What specifically was wrong with her advice?

[herme3]

Arguing with each other isn't going to help RedAlert.

 

He should send her the poem in my last post. I'm sure it will work.

[Bettina]

Some of you "naive" people do more harm than good when trying to 'help'.

 

 

 

Oh no? And what if it is bullshit? Should I not point it out?

 

Not in that manner. If you are going to disagree then do so. Don't come here and call someone else's advice bull**** and give none of your own. That star under your name doesn't give you that right.

 

Bee

[1veedo]

So many guys treat their girlfriends like crap. They just care about kissing and everything, while they don't really care about the girl's feelings.

Not if you're a good kisser. Lol, honestly though, I hear the same thing from lots of guys. You want to be different then those kinds of men to stand out and be appealing to girls -- bad logic if you ask me. They get chicks, and you dont. Think about it.

 

Women will remember you for active dates, like fairs, ice skating, etc. If they have a lot of fun, find a secluded area, and move in ;-) Women appreciate guys who go for what they want. If she seems unconfterble, though, just back off. No big deal; it's not like she'll hate you for it. Run your fingertiop along her ear, under, and missage the earlobe. Drives women crazy. It feels really good -- an older girlfriend showed me. But women like to make out too. You're not being some kind of asshole just because you get physical.

 

What you might need is like an "easy" girl to learn from. If you find somebody like that she might not care that you're inexperienced. Just dont act like a little ***** about it. You'll have much more fun if you dont worry about anything -- laugh and be adventurous!

[herme3]

Not if you're a good kisser. Lol' date=' honestly though, I hear the same thing from lots of guys. You want to be different then those kinds of men to stand out and be appealing to girls -- bad logic if you ask me. They get chicks, and you dont. Think about it.

 

Women will remember you for active dates, like fairs, ice skating, etc. If they have a lot of fun, find a secluded area, and move in ;-) Women appreciate guys who go for what they want. If she seems unconfterble, though, just back off. No big deal; it's not like she'll hate you for it. Run your fingertiop along her ear, under, and missage the earlobe. Drives women crazy. It feels really good -- an older girlfriend showed me. But women like to make out too. You're not being some kind of asshole just because you get physical.

 

What you might need is like an "easy" girl to learn from. If you find somebody like that she might not care that you're inexperienced. Just dont act like a little ***** about it. You'll have much more fun if you dont worry about anything -- laugh and be adventurous![/quote']

 

You just don't understand girls...

 

When getting advice about stuff like this, talk to a girl instead of other guys. Girls want people to be sensitive to their feelings, and care about them. Most girls value personality more than looks. Girls want to find the guy they can trust and be together with for the rest of their lives.

 

Take some of my dating advice: http://lost2destiny.homestead.com/advice.html

[bascule]

You just don't understand girls...

 

Seems like he understands superficial bitches (the vain and typically rather attractive type, not to say that you can't be both deep and vain) quite well. I really hate them though...

 

The problem is that he's obviously overgeneralizing, which is the case with anyone peddling a "how to hook up with girls" formula.

 

Want mine? Listen to them, and empathize. Figure out how the feel about what they're talking about, and let them know. That's really what people are looking for when they tell you about their problems: someone who understands and can sympethize with how they feel. In real life I'm much more of a listener than a talker, and I'm naturally empathetic to the point that if I harm someone, however indirectly, I feel horrible about it, and I've had people reduce me to tears with their stories too... that is, if I can empathize with what they're saying, which isn't always the case...

[RedAlert]

Funny, most guys want someone they can trust and be with for the rest of their lives too, except they really ever tell that to anyone.

 

In any case, it's a verly beautiful poemyou have there hermes. I am not going to give it to her.

 

Why? Because I don't think she is a true friend. I considered her to be my only true friend. I had no one else I considered a "true" friend.

 

Turns out, I was just being naive, over optimistic and plain dumb.

 

Next time I'll never be so dedicated to someone, as I have been to this person, unless the person in question proves that they would do the same for me.

 

I am not going to talk with ever. Unless she comes and talks with me first...in which case we'll see what happens. But I really dislike her now. The sudden change from "love" to not liking her is quite sudden and surprising for me. Just proves that I didn't really know what love was, and probably didn't love her as much as I thought I did.

 

Anyways, I am two years younger than Bettina. I am assuming you are in grade 12? I am in grade 10.

 

I need someone I can trust. Someone who won't disappoint me. I doubt I will ever find such a person. The world seems to be made up specially of people who will go out of their way to disappoint you in every way.

 

I really didn't want her to love me back...I already knew she didn't. I just told her. In any case, she showed her true nature.

 

Ah well, I don't feel bad any more either you know. Not even crushed.

 

I still feel so angry for being so naive and gullible. I'm angry with myself, not with anyone else.

 

Bascule: I am very much like how you are. I really empathized with this person. Listened to all their stories, sympathized with them. I gave them possible solutions when they asked for solutions. I gave them advice when they asked for it. I just listened to them when they just wanted me to listen, and I really showed that I understood.

 

She even told me once that she had never met someone who understood her so well, and who has helped her so much. I think that is where I started loving her, when she told me that.

 

What a bloody lie.

[Severian]

What specifically was wrong with her advice?

 

I didn't say there was anything wrong with her advice. (She took a very general statement as a personal attack.)

 

But since you ask...

 

The problem was not that Red Alert has a crush on the girl. The problem was that he told her. He put her in a difficult, uncomfortable situation simply because he had a crush. That doesn't sound like friendship to me. There is absolutely no way that you should say something like that unless you are pretty sure of the response or are in a circumstance where it will not ruin the friendship.

 

To suggest that people should be honest with their feelings is just plain bad advice. Most people are not even sure what their feelings are, so to go and tell someone that you 'love' them, when you don't know how they will respond, is just asking for confusion and problems. (Of course, sometimes you need to, but this wasn't one of those times.)

 

RedAlert's friend was clearly taken by surprise. She does not reciprocate these feelings and now feels uncomfortable with the idea that her percieved friend was in fact something else. She will find it hard to look him in the eye again, and I understand why. If he wants her back as a friend there are only two ways to do it. One way is to wait until she feels a long enough time has passed that he can't possibly still have feelings for her (but we are taking years here).

 

The second way is to tell her that he really didn't mean what he said. This sounds dishonest, but I am sure it is not. I am fairly sure that, if RedAlert were honest with himself, we would find his feelings pretty confused at the moment. He needed to go to her, apologise for the bad behaviour, and tell her that he was confused and naive and simply didn't know what he was feeling. Tell her that he has thought over it, and realised that he was just being silly, and of course they are just friends.

 

Of course, what he did instead, with the advice of people on this thread, was go back and reinforce how much he did mean everything he said. So I think only option 1 is available now....

[Severian]

I need someone I can trust. Someone who won't disappoint me. I doubt I will ever find such a person. The world seems to be made up specially of people who will go out of their way to disappoint you in every way.

 

The funny thing is, that when you do meet the person you will truely love, you will realise that every other girl in your life has been a mere infatuation. The ironic thing is that you will never know that until you meet them, so with each girl you will always be asking yourself 'is this the one?'. It is only when you finally meet the one that you will have no need to ask that question.

 

I also think you are being a bit harsh on the girl. Imagine yourself having a friend who you were not physically attracted to. Now imagine them telling you that they love you. How would you react? It is perfectly natural that she should feel uncomfortable and withdraw.

[sabbath]

I didn't say there was anything wrong with her advice. (She took a very general statement as a personal attack.)

 

But since you ask...

 

The problem was not that Red Alert has a crush on the girl. The problem was that he told her. He put her in a difficult' date=' uncomfortable situation simply because he had a crush. That doesn't sound like friendship to me. There is absolutely no way that you should say something like that unless you are pretty sure of the response or are in a circumstance where it will not ruin the friendship. [/quote']

 

The fact that he told her isn't a problem. Why should it be? Yes, he put her in a difficult situation but imagine if he didn't tell her at all? Do you know the total agony of not telling somebody you liked/loved them? If they are really friends, they can either put it behind them, or nurture that friendship into something more intimate.

 

I do not think a friend would tell another, esp. in Red Alert's case, if his feelings were just a crush. Red Alert says he can't stand the girl's absence. If his feelings were otherwise he could easily have gotten over her.

 

Besides, he even chooses to overlook his personal feelings just so that he can be in her confidence or vicinity again. Now tell me if there isn't anything in there.

 

He did put her in an uncomfortable position, but that is unavoidable. He however, did what he must. What are you suggesting, that he keep silent forever?

 

Think about other alternative he could have done. At least he told her, not somebody else. She deserves to know.

[nova31589]

if you are going to tell a friend you have feelings for them you say that you like them but do not want that fact to come between your friendship.

I've done it twice but i was kinda lucky and they both returned the feeling. unfortunately they both said it on the same night... not pleasant. i was hated for about a week but then we talked it over and agreed that it was probably for the best as it might have ruined our friendship if we broke up. that was definately a desicion that i do not regret as i broke up with my gf and things just got real weird between us...

my advice never say you love them untill you've been together for about a month OR unless she says it to you first because that way you know that you are not putting too much pressure on her by saying it...

any who thats my advice no doubt that resolved your problem with this girl but just for future reference...

[herme3]

RedAlert, I believe that you were either hiding your feelings when you first started this thread, or you are hiding your feelings now. If this girl was so special to you, there is no way that you could be ready to forget about her after a few days.

 

Don't get mad at the girl. Severian seems to think that it is wrong to tell a regular friend that you would like to start a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship. That isn't wrong, because in many cases the girl should be happy to have a closer relationship with a good friend. You need to find out why the girl doesn't want a closer relationship. You should find out what you need to do to win her heart.

 

You should never expect a girl to fall in love with you just because you love her. You need to prove to her that you are the type of guy that she can trust. If you are looking for a girl that will instantly become your girlfriend, then you aren't going to get a good girlfriend. You are going to end up with someone who will easily dump you for the next guy she sees. If you want a relationship built around trust, you need to find a girl that won't trust you until after you earn her trust.

 

From what you've said, this girl sounds like someone that could be a great girlfriend for you. She is obviously a good person because you have been friends with her for so long. She sounds like somebody that you will be able to trust, once you earn her trust. If you are having difficulty getting her to be your girlfriend now, just think about how difficult it will be for another guy to take her away from you.

 

Now, go prove to this girl how much you care about her. This isn't going to be an easy journey for you, but don't ever give up. It might take you days, weeks, months, or even years before you could even get the chance to go on a date with her. Even if she gets another boyfriend, just wait until the day that the two of you can be together. Whatever you do, don't get another girlfriend. This will just make her think that she doesn't mean that much to you. If she sees that you don't want to be with any girl except for her, she will eventually realize how much you care about her.

[5614]

Severian: I don't totally disagree with you, because once I thought and acted as you would, but as the same time I beg to differ on what you say. I talk from personal experience only when I say that method does not always work ie. it failed for me once.

 

Now maybe that girl was unusual, maybe RedAlert's is, my point is that all girls are different and so must be treated different. Whilst you may make a general rule you cannot apply it to each individual. You're rule is something you would see in statistics, it is a generalisation, it fails on an individual basis, which of course girlfriends are.

 

Your theory is almost flawless and quite logical... but not all girls are logical and so logic does not work on all girls, or not when it comes to love anyway. What I'm trying to say is that now in hindsight you can say with confidence that your advice is correct... but before the suggestions of "talk to her" or "leave her" or "just say hi" or whatever were all just as valid and were methods that could have worked or seemed the best idea to all those who said it.

 

I read your post and it is all correct. But you could not have said with certainty that it was correct before we knew the outcome. We were suggesting what we thought was best. You then read the completed version of what happened (incl. outcome) and said "well actually...", well yeah, anyone could have done that, it is fairly obvious.

 

Calling Bettina's advice bullshit is at the end of day harsh but true. But if you think about it, it is totaly unfair. She said that before we knew the outcome. How can you say it's crap because it might have worked. If this girl thought as Bettina did then surely her advice would be the best advice (ie. better than yours). We come back down to the fact that girls think differently and so the best advice can only come from someone who knows the girl absolutely and completely.

 

Your advice is correct, but it might not have been, and it might not be next time. Equally it might have been correct and it might be next time... it's the "might", the uncertainty, which is the issue and because of that you cannot call your advice correct* or someone else's bullshit.

 

* that is, generally, we know in this individual scenario it was correct, but applying it as a general rule is useless because it can fail on an individual basis - an easy example being one of my ex's

[-Demosthenes-]

What matters now is that we can all learn from this and do something different next time. Like when I left my ipod in my pocket and it went through the wash. You cry for a couple weeks (or a month, like I did), save up enough money for another (or in your case make new acquaintances/friends), and use better judgement when dealing with your new ipod (or friends).

[bascule]

The problem was not that Red Alert has a crush on the girl. The problem was that he told her. He put her in a difficult' date=' uncomfortable situation simply because he had a crush. That doesn't sound like friendship to me. There is absolutely no way that you should say something like that unless you are pretty sure of the response or are in a circumstance where it will not ruin the friendship.

 

To suggest that people should be honest with their feelings is just plain bad advice. Most people are not even sure what their feelings are, so to go and tell someone that you 'love' them, when you don't know how they will respond, is just asking for confusion and problems. (Of course, sometimes you need to, but this wasn't one of those times.)[/quote']

 

Okay, and when did Bettina suggest that? If anything it sounds like you're just reiterating everything she said...

 

I know exactly what the problem is. To her' date=' its no longer a friendship because she feels you were a friend for the sole purpose of building a relationship. Your entire friendship with her was based on someday you two being together in your own mind and when you told her, you let her down big time because she saw the friendship as one big lie. it wasn't something a friend would do. It was not part of the friendship.

 

The other problem is that you've made it uncomfortable for her. She can't say things like "Geez, I really like that boy over there" because you are with her. This is a weight she probably doesn't want to deal with. How can she put her hand on your shoulder or touch you as a friend or stand close to you without wondering if you will take it as a signal instead of friendship.[/quote']

[RedAlert]

You know Severian...I actually did tell her that I was feeling really confused at that time when I told her what I did, and That I kind of acted on impulse.

 

She hasn't told me whether she believes me or not.

 

Which probably means she does not.

 

As to hermes....she will probably think it is nagging her if I do what you have told me to do. I would have done that before, but now I know she thinks it's plain annoying.

 

I think Severian and Bettina should end their argument. It is clear that there is a misunderstanding here...

[herme3]

As to hermes....she will probably think it is nagging her if I do what you have told me to do. I would have done that before, but now I know she thinks it's plain annoying.

 

There are ways that you can do this without being annoying. Walking up to her everyday asking, "Will you go out with me? Will you go out with me?" will be very annoying. Make sure you don't do that.

 

What you need to do is make her think, "Wow, what a sweet guy". You should compliment her every once in a while, but don't make it too obvious that you are complimenting her. Of course, always act polite. If you are going somewhere, and she is walking behind you, make sure you hold the door open for her. Little things like this will really count because most guys are so rude.

 

The important thing is that now she knows how you really feel about her. If you can just figure out how to make her like you, she might even ask you out on a date. I already told you that this won't be easy. She doesn't sound like the type of girl that would jump into a relationship, which is actually a good thing. If it is really difficult for you to get her to be your girlfriend, it will also be very difficult for another guy to take her away from you.

 

RedAlert, don't try to tell yourself that you wouldn't care if you never see this girl again. You know that you love this girl! Don't listen to anyone who tells you to let her go because you don't really love her. Some people are trying to tell you that your feelings aren't real because you don't know what love is. Don't listen to that! You know in your heart how you feel inside. I could sense your true feelings in your first post, and I think I understand exactly how you are feeling. Don't get discouraged, and don't give up. As long as this girl lives, she will never be "gone". Just keep trying because there will always be another day, and another chance.

[bascule]

Oh motherf***er... so apparently she had a crush on me the whole time. Well that's life I suppose, tell 'em you love 'em and you'll find out they don't love you back... don't tell them and you'll find out they do. Now I'm all moved and nothing can come of it... well, maybe something

[why?]

Dude.. i went through the same problem as you are facing right now. But we remained friends. Apparently she likes me 2 but cant go out with me. Anyways.. friendship is affected but dont let it get to you.

You deserve a better person/friend. You tried.. she doesnt want to.. Screw her.

[1veedo]

In terms of ladder theory, what you did was attempt the jump between the friends ladder and the good ladder but instead landed in the abyss.

 

"The Abyss isn't really as bad as it sounds. Mostly it's a period of self-loathing, embarrassment, and of course utter awkwardness with the girl in question if they are talking at all." But this is a good thing because before you just an intilectual whore, ie, you were a guy that was being used for her own amusement and entertainment. An intellectual whore is a very bad thing to be. Chances are, your girl was ****ing an outlaw biker and needed you for intellectual stimulation that the outlaw biker wasn't giving her

 

See scenario 1 of ladders for more information.

[softdragonz]

I dont know if this theory is true, but i feel, that as a person, I shouldn't make the first move.

 

Certain people of the opposite sex sometimes take advantage of our loyalty , overfriendliness and over-helping nature. It so happened that i once was too loyal and helping to a friend (my first crush) and after i finished helping her, she didn't even say thanks and stopped replying my mails. I felt so bad.

 

I think RedAlert should feel satisfied now. There are a lot of people around RedAlert who can understand what his love is and respect his feelings.

 

ALL THE BEST

[Severian]

Okay, and when did Bettina suggest that? If anything it sounds like you're just reiterating everything she said...

 

Once again, I didn't say that she did. Can't you read?

 

But she did say:

 

My advice? Tell her what you told us in your opening post. In fact' date=' (and this is where I disagree with the rest) I would show her these posts and let her make up her mind.

[/quote']

 

So unless she thinks he was lieing in the op, then she is telling him to be honest.

 

Calling Bettina's advice bullshit is at the end of day harsh but true. But if you think about it' date=' it is totaly unfair.

[/quote']

 

Would you care to point out the post where I called Bettina's advice bullshit?