Making Hydrochloric acid + Halogen Chemistry.

[YT2095]

the problem is this, I can tick off Vinegar, water, salt, a large part of the oils etc... as Known chemical compounds and what they consist of as elements.

 

what I can`t do is such a things as Flour or Yeast and not the preservatives unless I know what they are.

 

I`m Guessing the Preservatives may play a large part in this! Ca or Mg chlorides are used as preservatives, as is SO2 (and a whole host of other inorganics).

Hell, even KBrO3 was used in bread making for ages before it got banned as a potential carcinogen!!!

 

there really is too many "Wild cards" in that mix to play with in all honesty, too many for Me anyway, although I`m sure someone else smarter than me will know what the chemical breakdown of Flour and Yeast is and know what the preservatives are.

 

I doubt I can help you any further based upon the data you`v given, sorry.

[einstine124]

try the electrolysis of water take a 500 or 250 ml wate bottle and half fill it with aquous sol of NaCl and make two holes on either sides of the bottle to insert the pencils the hole should be above the water. Take two pencils and sharp their both ends now attach wire to one side of both pencils and attach the other end of wires with the 9volts battery and dip the other end of the pencils in the water from the hole and seal the remaining portion of the hole so that that the gases dont get out. At cathoad hydrogen will begin to form and at anode Chlorine will form now take a pipe or tube and attach it with the mouth of the bottle and connect the other end with the mouth of another bottle. Seal observe the bottle so that there is no place remained open. now leave the apparatus for at least 12 hours. after that take the second bottle and place it in sunlight to form hcl.

[night-rate]

add conc sulphuric acid to NaCl and heat. bubble the gas through H2O and roberts your fathers,sisters brother.

 

test it with conc ammonium hydroxide white mist of NH4CL should appear.

 

hope this helps, i havent done it yet but i will be trying it soon.

[UC]

add conc sulphuric acid to NaCl and heat. bubble the gas through H2O and roberts your fathers,sisters brother.

 

test it with conc ammonium hydroxide white mist of NH4CL should appear.

 

hope this helps, i havent done it yet but i will be trying it soon.

 

*SLOWLY* add conc. sulfuric to NaCl. Only use gentle heating when no more HCl is evolved by itself. If you dump the two together and heat, you will probably blow the connections on your apparatus open and end up inhaling a cloud of HCl, as will everyone nearby. Lead the gas to the surface of ice cold water. Bubbling probably isn't necessary as the solubility is quite high and you will end up with suckback.

[DrDNA]

add conc sulphuric acid to NaCl and heat. bubble the gas through H2O and roberts your fathers,sisters brother.

 

test it with conc ammonium hydroxide white mist of NH4CL should appear.

 

hope this helps, i havent done it yet but i will be trying it soon.

 

Uhm.....

I don't think it is a good idea to be trying this; esp at home without a fume hood.

 

And you should not be adding conc base (including ammonium hydroxide) directly to any conc acid (including HCl or H2SO4).

 

Are you sure that your instructions didn't say something about just using the vapors to test??

[frosch45]

One suggestion, a fume hood can cost thousands of dollars for a really nice one, but one thing that I've found useful is a gas mask. It only cost me $20 USD at a local sports store after September 11th. Very useful, just to be safe. Granted, it won't save your skin, but it can certainly help save your lungs (which is the greater threat anyway).

 

Eventually they wear out, but I rarely do anything that isn't very well contained that deals with toxic vapor.

[hermanntrude]

one warning... some gases will pass right through a gas mask. Not many, but it's better just to take the gas away rather than risk it. It's also not difficult to create a hole in the seal between your face and a mask, causing you to breathe the gases inadvertantly

[night-rate]

Uhm.....

I don't think it is a good idea to be trying this; esp at home without a fume hood.

 

And you should not be adding conc base (including ammonium hydroxide) directly to any conc acid (including HCl or H2SO4).

 

Are you sure that your instructions didn't say something about just using the vapors to test??

 

yes,

 

sorry , i meant let the fumes ( vapours ) from the ammonium hydroxide flow over the top of whatever you have made the hcl in. then the clouds of ammonium chloride should appear.

 

i did the experiment after all, i did it outside with safety clothing and stuff.

 

but i would suggest if someone else try it, get your hands on a 2 litre boiling flask, a glass funnel, a clamp and stand, a controllable flamming heat source, and the correct connections from your reaction vessel to the collection vessel.

 

i tried it without these things and tasted gaseous hcl ( not nice) ,

 

as the retard that i am, i used a 2ltr plastic coke bottle some garden hose a glass jar and some electrical tape, so i guess i deserved the lungfull of acid gas,but at least i know it works and how to do it properly next time.

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would the gas evolved be able to be condensed into a concentrated form if it were in the presence of enough moisture??

 

what i was thinking was, to perform the NaCl and H2SO4 as somebody else and i suggested previously, and symaltaneously boil some water in another flask and connect the tubes from both vessels to a condenser.

 

any help on this would be much appreciated.

 

thanks.

[HeXx]

I can't see any reason why method would not work?

 

From what i know the only way to electrolyze something it has to be on the liquid state, so first the melting point of NaCl is way to high (over 1000 C), but even if you could do it from what i know the only thing you will get is pure sodium on one of the cathodes that by the way will combust as soon as you take the cathode from the NaCl, and a very nice gas named chlorine which improves your breathing... (obviously not) which will also be impossible to use due to the extreme temperatures near the environment of the experiment.

 

That's what i know from this mater. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Edited June 19, 2009 by HeXx

[Sinistar]

It's all because of physics. The muriatic acid (HCl) will eat through the aluminum foil's oxide layer and eventually eat through the aluminum forming hydrogen gas. The pressure of the H2 gas will cause a physical failure in the bottle which results in the explosion. Of course you'd have to be the biggest ****ing idiot on the face of the earth to even try it.

 

Does have a way to deal with H2 gas in an easy way? like storage or safety release of it? like during the process you mentioned we could direct and put the gas in a cold bottle to keep the gas stable,it may work i think, am i wrong?

[chilled_fluorine]

electrolysis of NaCl soln will liberate Chlorine gas, and leave you with Sodium Chlorate (NaClO3)

on further electrolysis you`ll get sodium PERchlorate (NaClO4)

Carbon electrodes are the most commonly used for this.

 

As pure molten NaCl, further heating is`nt often required as the current generates quite a bit of heat too.

 

to get just the Sodium metal out, NaOH and mercury can be used too, it forms a sodium mercury amalgam (nasty stuff!!!!).

 

oh yeah and also chlorates and perchlorates can be treated with sulphuric acid to give the appropriate acid (perchloric acid etc...)

NEVER DO THIS!, as perchloric acid is amongst the top 10 of strongest acids known, and WILL instantly set fire to ANY organic material with a high risk of explosion! leave that one to the experts in Industry.

Well, I find perchloric acid to be very fun stuff. I don't, however, have quite enough nerve to make chloric acid. Are you sure it's in the top 10? It is a superacid, but only just. I would think there are 10 stronger than it. When I want to make a ridiculous amount of chlorine, I just mix hydrochloric and pool chlorine (essentially strong bleach). Too bad it won't help him. You might also try kmno4 and pool chlorine, or just regular bleach. I prefer not to waste my kmno4, and hcl is cheaper, so I don't ever do this. Mno2 from batteries with hcl also works, but wear a face shield and gloves if you're going to open one. If I recall correctly, dissolving chlorine in water also makes hypochlorous acid. That could ne dangerous if you thought it was pure hcl. Mixing sulphuric and salt raises the question of removing the sodium sulphate from the hcl.

[elementcollector1]

Well, I find perchloric acid to be very fun stuff. I don't, however, have quite enough nerve to make chloric acid. Are you sure it's in the top 10? It is a superacid, but only just. I would think there are 10 stronger than it. When I want to make a ridiculous amount of chlorine, I just mix hydrochloric and pool chlorine (essentially strong bleach). Too bad it won't help him. You might also try kmno4 and pool chlorine, or just regular bleach. I prefer not to waste my kmno4, and hcl is cheaper, so I don't ever do this. Mno2 from batteries with hcl also works, but wear a face shield and gloves if you're going to open one. If I recall correctly, dissolving chlorine in water also makes hypochlorous acid. That could ne dangerous if you thought it was pure hcl. Mixing sulphuric and salt raises the question of removing the sodium sulphate from the hcl.

 

Sodium sulfate is poorly soluble in water at 0 C, just 19.5g / 100mL.

Also, if this does make HCl, wouldn't the bulk of it come off as a gas if the reaction rate is strong enough? If that's the case, just lead it into water with a funnel on the end of the lead tube to prevent suckback.

Does NH4Cl really form a 'mist'? If that's so, how does one collect it from HCl and ammonia? Recrystallize on a cool surface is my guess...

[weiming1998]

Yes, HCl is a strong acid, but because it is a gas in its non-aqueous form, we can take advantage of its volatility and make it out of weaker acids easily.

 

Firstly, you don't need H2SO4 to make HCl out of NaCl. Sodium bisulfate, found as a pH down for pools, can be heated with table salt with a bit of water to liberate gaseous hydrogen chloride, which can be bubbled into water to make hydrochloric acid. H3PO4, a non-volatile (but weak) acid will also liberate HCl on heating with table salt. In fact, almost any non-volatile acid will do (but the temperature required would be quite high, above temperatures that softens glass for really weak acids like SiO2 with water).

 

Apart from acids, metal ions that are especially Lewis acidic will work as well. An example would be Al3+ ions. Aluminium sulfate reacts with NaCl in the presence of water at elevated temperatures to form HCl and Al(OH)3. Even MgSO4 is reported to react with NaCl to form HCl.

 

Contrary to some of the posts here, leading chlorine through water will not make appreciable amounts of hydrochloric acid. Chlorine gas reacts with water in an equilibrium, as: Cl2+H2O<---->HClO+HCl. At room temperature and pressure, only 0.5 grams of chlorine will dissolve in 100ml of water. Decomposing the HClO via UV light will only result in a very dilute solution of HCl, way too dilute for experiments. You can't even concentrate the solution by bubbling in more chlorine gas, as the solubility of Cl2 decreases even further at low pH. The exception is if you have some sort of reducing agent that instantly reduces the HClO formed by the hydrolysis of Cl2 to HCl, shifting the equilibrium to the right, but I can't think of any reducing agents that won't end up contaminating the acid produced/react with the acid.

Edited October 24, 2012 by weiming1998