Cosmic Microwave Background

[sunspot]

The CMB is generally is considered a remanant of the eariest expansion of the universe. There is another explanation for the CMB. In simplest terms, it stemmed and is still stemming from the stars and the galaxies. This would also explain why it is everywhere, with irregularities being due to the distribution of stars and galaxies within the universe. Below is a microwave image of a galaxy.

 

 

Microwaves work similar to electron fields and affect charged atoms, molecules, ions, and particles. When we microwave water, the dipole charges (oxygen and water) cause the water molecules to rotate in the microwave field creating friction heating. If we look at our sun, the solar wind is full of charged particles. The changing of states as charged particles combine, is at the microwave level. The sun has been giving off microwaves and the solar wind has been doing this for billions of years. Multiply this by billions of stars in our galaxy alone and one can get a handle on the amount of microwaves being contributed by present day objects in the universe.

 

Does anyone have any idea what percent of the CMB is from primal sources and what percent is from the stella sources since then?

[swansont]

But these other sources radiate at other wavelengths, too. While they may account for the presence of some microwaves, they do not account for the microwaves being at 2.7 K, nor are they consistent with the lack of other background at the other wavelengths.

[sunspot]

The 2.7 K microwaves implies the thermal signature of space. Something that is white hot looks white. The radiant output of space due to its 2.7K temperature is below IR into the microwave level (microwave hot). In other words, the early expansion gave off heat. Everyone agrees on that. We also have to add the heat from all the fusion, supernova, etc, that occurred since then. The sum of all these heat sources gives us a nice balmy 2.7K temperature in space.

 

I finally understand my confusion. I assumed the microwaves were the cause of the 2.7k temperature, but they are actually an affect stemming from the background radiate energy signiture of space. Slight directional pertubations in the CMB reflect warm (loosely speaking) space zones due to the local thermal output distribution.

[Martin]

The 2.7 K microwaves implies the thermal signature of space. Something that is white hot looks white. The radiant output of space due to its 2.7K temperature is below IR into the microwave level (microwave hot). In other words' date=' the early expansion gave off heat. Everyone agrees on that. We also have to add the heat from all the fusion, supernova, etc, that occurred since then. The sum of all these heat sources gives us a nice balmy 2.7K temperature in space.

 

I finally understand my confusion. I assumed the microwaves were the cause of the 2.7k temperature, but they are actually an affect stemming from the background radiate energy signiture of space. Slight directional pertubations in the CMB reflect warm (loosely speaking) space zones due to the local thermal output distribution.[/quote']

 

the starlight you talk about is a neglible contribution percentagewise

 

almost the entire energy per cubic meter out in interstellar space is due to the light releasted around year 300,000 from the start of expansion.

 

You say:

" I assumed the microwaves were the cause of the 2.7k temperature,"

 

and that was right. You assumed correctly. Don't change your mind now that you are ahead!

 

The microwaves were released as shorter wavelength light more or less like sunlight. their wavelengths have been stretched out by the expansion of space by a factor of 1100 since their release. so naturally they are microwave now although they used to be a mix more like between a litebulb and the sun in temperature. (original temp more like 3000 Kelvin)

[swansont]

The 2.7 K microwaves implies the thermal signature of space. Something that is white hot looks white. The radiant output of space due to its 2.7K temperature is below IR into the microwave level (microwave hot). In other words, the early expansion gave off heat. Everyone agrees on that. We also have to add the heat from all the fusion, supernova, etc, that occurred since then. The sum of all these heat sources gives us a nice balmy 2.7K temperature in space.

 

You need a mechanism for why the microwaves are in a thermal distribution at 2.7 K, and not the temperature of the stars and supernovae.

 

I finally understand my confusion. I assumed the microwaves were the cause of the 2.7k temperature, but they are actually an affect stemming from the background radiate energy signiture of space. Slight directional pertubations in the CMB reflect warm (loosely speaking) space zones due to the local thermal output distribution.

 

The microwaves are the background radiant energy.

[sunspot]

The mechanism I visualize can be observed by looking at the sun. (Don't look directly!). The sun is outputting a wide distribution of wavelengths from radiowaves through x-rays-gamma. The sum of all this energy flowing through the surface ends up with the surface of the sun being an average temperature which radiates at yellow/white. The sun is not just producing white-yellow quanta but is also producing everything above and below yellow/white. the average of all this creates the thermal signiture of the surface, which radiates at that yellow/white.

 

One can see the same thing in empty space. It has sparse matter, dark matter as it were, and every possible type of energy quanta. If we average it all together it creates 2.7K, which radiates at the microwave range. The slight observed geometrical difference within the background microwaves is simple due to a slighty different percentage of all the quanta. This sort of lines up with the expansion and shows the history of average emmision.

[swansont]

Combining signals from different temperature sources will not, in general, yield a signal that looks like a thermal source.

[sunspot]

One could demonstrate this. If I had a hot air balloon with five different heat sources at five different temperatures and/or mass transfer rates, the IR signal from the balloon would reflect the sum of the five no matter what combination I use. That assumes sufficient time for mixing. I could also suspend a molten piece of metal, a few vapor phase chemical reactions, even a plasma cutting torch. Wit a little mixing the IR signal will still reflect the average temperature defined by all these affects.

[swansont]

One could demonstrate this. If I had a hot air balloon with five different heat sources at five different temperatures and/or mass transfer rates, the IR signal from the balloon would reflect the sum of the five no matter what combination I use. That assumes sufficient time for mixing[/b']. I could also suspend a molten piece of metal, a few vapor phase chemical reactions, even a plasma cutting torch. Wit a little mixing the IR signal will still reflect the average temperature defined by all these affects.

 

 

emphasis added.

 

That's the big hurdle, and why your example is a poor one. How do your photon groups thermalize with each other? Here you are letting a gas, with relatively high density, thermalize, and are looking at the resulting radiation signature. Your CMB is from distinct sources that are not mixing.

[sunspot]

That may be a job for dark matter and all the matter going into space from all the stars and galaxies.

 

Consider this angle. If we assume the microwave background is from the original expansion, it is not going to just sit there. Things were denser at one time, meaning that these microwaves should have bounced off things and/or been absorbed for billions of years. If one adds this absorption and bounce to the current microwaves that are assumed to be more pristine, space should actually be colder. However, the heat from all the stars keeps the universe 2.7K.